--- Log opened Mon Aug 23 00:00:18 2004
05:37 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mnemoc_
05:38 -!- Netsplit over, joins: mnemoc_
12:31 -!- jsaw_ [~jsaw@volans.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de] has joined #t2
12:36 < rxr> hi jsaw_ 
12:39 < jsaw_> hi rxr
14:46 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.242.138.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
14:46 -!- Topic for #t2: t2 - the upcomming rl successor ...
14:46 -!- Topic set by rxr_ [] [Thu Aug 12 02:15:41 2004]
14:46 [Users #t2]
14:46 [ jsaw_] [ mnemoc_] [ rxr] [ rxr_] [ valentin] 
14:46 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 5 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
14:46 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug  8 21:15:33 2004
14:46 -!- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
14:47 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 10 secs
14:55 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.195.188.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
15:51 -!- You're now known as rxr
16:50 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.56] has joined #t2
16:54 < rxr> hi mnemoc 
17:04 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:11 < mnemoc> hi rxr
19:09 < valentin> hi
19:10 < mnemoc> hi valentin 
20:19 < rxr> re
20:20 < mnemoc> re rxr
20:20 < mnemoc> jimmy did quit rock too
20:20 < mnemoc> OT: where does libao came from? (it's required by mpg321)
20:21 < rxr> ogg-vorbis
20:21 < mnemoc> thanks :)
20:21 < rxr> I heared that jimmy left rock from valentin ...
20:22 < rxr> yeah - I predicted more people leaving ...
20:22 < rxr> I consider mailing jimmy - but I guess he won't like the C++ thing of t2 I guess - and he already claimed to have choosen slackware ...
20:23 < rxr> however I find the build scripts of slackware really disgusting ...
20:23 < mnemoc> which distro has nice building scripts?
20:23 < rxr> really too simple without any real feature - just "build them damn thing and do nothing inteligent on the way" bruth force hacks ...
20:23 < rxr> former rock versions have not been too bad ...
20:24 < mnemoc> i'm very happy with 2.0
20:25 < rxr> I'm not happy how 2.0 shifts - they apply far too much stuff - and do not release
20:25 < rxr> I'm very courious when the next 2.0 release will be out - when left the 2.0-stable branch was in code freeze in order to update the linux kernels and do the next release ... - and now ...
20:26 < rxr> well - I have t2 on all production systems for update now - so I do only partially care ...
20:26 < mnemoc> clifford sent a mail about his idea.. he think he has hundrend slaves :)
20:27 < mnemoc> that's the good part of forks
20:27 < rxr> this the many rock trees thing?
20:27 < mnemoc> yes
20:27 < rxr> yeah - read it on the lurker web thing ...
20:27 < rxr> (after someone else pointed me to it ... ;-)
20:27 < mnemoc> =)
20:28 < rxr> I also wonder why clifford freaked up about the irc logs so much ...
20:28 < mnemoc> you have only one indirection ro RL-ML :)
20:28 < mnemoc> i guess that was just to troll
20:28 < rxr> they are neither that important - and if I would have liked to delete stuff - I would have choosen typo3 or my stable releases in the peoples directory ...
20:29 < rxr> why he thought I would wilful delete the holy irc logs is a puzzle for me ...
20:30 < mnemoc> i guess, in your case he would do that
20:30 < rxr> hehe - I could have even delete the svn database before pushing it to them ... *g*
20:30 < rxr> well - we'll see how this continous ...
20:30 < rxr> mnemoc: ah and btw. greetings back from susan ...
20:31 < mnemoc> oh... great :)
20:31 < mnemoc> grep apm.h /var/adm/flists/*   please
20:31 < rxr> apmd I guess
20:32 < rxr> let me ssh to a x86 box - only ppc handy ;-)
20:32 < rxr> /var/adm/flists/apmd:apmd: usr/include/apm.h
20:32 < rxr> well and:
20:32 < rxr> /var/adm/flists/linux26-src:linux26-src: usr/src/linux-2.6.4-rock/include/asm-arm/apm.h
20:33 < mnemoc> battfink-acpi.c:34:17: apm.h: No such file or directory
20:33 < mnemoc> == 08/24/04 14:34:15 =[9]=> Finished building package battfink.
20:42 < rxr> do you need the apm stuff?
20:43 < mnemoc> i have acpi only on my kernel
20:43 < rxr> there should be a patch in the package that is only applied on powerpc that disables the built of it ...
20:43 < rxr> maybe I should (in t2) add to the .conf that the patch is conditionally applied when no apm.h is found ;-)
20:43 < mnemoc> yes
20:47 < mnemoc> :)
20:50 < rxr> hm - HEAD does miss the patch anyway
20:50 < rxr> and I fear I deleted it myself
20:51 < mnemoc> oh
20:58 < valentin> re
20:58 < rxr> hi valentin 
20:59 < rxr> hm - why is retrieving the log so slow ...
20:59  * rxr going d' a new cappuccino ...
21:00 < rxr> wow - cliffords submaster mess left some filesize 0 files in the tree
21:01  * rxr finding for them
21:01 < valentin> rxr: i want to have a program/script for testing updates like that:
21:02 < valentin> ./bin/TestUpdate pkgname some-other-[D]-tags
21:03 < valentin> this program behaves like normal emerge except that it uses the alternate download tag and gives feedback wether this worked or not
21:03 < rxr> what do you need the some-other-D-tag thing for ?
21:04  * mnemoc ask the same
21:04 < valentin> for our smart update manager - alternatively i could mess around in the desc files, but i do not want that
21:05 < mnemoc> to update one specific [D] of a package?
21:05 < valentin> but wo altering the package description
21:05 < valentin> i could do a
21:06 < valentin> cp x.desc x.old ; sed s,old_tags,new_tags -i x.desc ..... cp x.old x.desc
21:06 < valentin> as an alternative
21:06 < valentin> just to test if posible updates work before aplining them to the desc file
21:07 < rxr> you do not yet need to apply them to the .desc file immediately
21:07 < rxr> I still do not get what your  alt-D would do ...
21:07 < valentin> yes and i do not want to apply them !
21:08 < valentin> this is what i need my alt-D thing for
21:09  * valentin feeling missunderstood ,)
21:10 < rxr> yeah - please eplain in full detail - I miss you concept ...
21:10 < valentin> so i am on this like-update-patch-but-smarter thing
21:11 < valentin> at first there is a program that scanns all desc files for dl urls to find newer versions of the downloaded files 
21:12 < rxr> yes, ack
21:12 < valentin> theese go into a list - btw: i propose to put those lists into the package directories themselfes, for reasons that will become clear
21:13 < valentin> now some voluntary people can run another programm (or the same whatever) to browse these list and select/reject possible updates
21:14 < valentin> the selected updates should be test-compiled in some kind of regression testing environment and that is what i need this alt-d thing for
21:15 < rxr> you want to commit them?
21:15 < rxr> so other people can run those ....
21:15 < valentin> commit what ?
21:15 < rxr> the alt-desc ...
21:16 < valentin> what exactly do you mean by alt-desc - the list of possible updates ?
21:16 < rxr> well do not make it that complicated and do nto seperate it too much 
21:16 < rxr> yes - you said those alt-d's will contain the updated to be tried downloads ...
21:17 < valentin> yes - i want to store them, so i do not need to throw out packages each time i run my get-update-list programm
21:18 < valentin> but this is an proposal, of course we can go without this lists
21:18 < rxr> "need to throw out packages"? You talk in questions ...
21:18 < valentin> no
21:18 < valentin> i think you still did not get my point :(
21:19 < rxr> wanna call me *grin*
21:19 < rxr> I understood: 
21:19 < valentin> so, lets start at the last point you said ack
21:19 < rxr> you test for updates and store the the result in package/*/*/*.desc-updated
21:19 < rxr> and then you want to test them later?
21:20 < valentin> i do not want to test them, i want them to be tested by t2 :)
21:20 < valentin> ok
21:20 < valentin> the reason why i need .desc-updated is
21:20 < rxr> sure that you want them to be tested automatically
21:21 < valentin> to store my decision if i want to update this package or not
21:21 < valentin> we have 1000+ packages
21:22 < valentin> now imagine how many "newer files" will be found each time you run Test4Updates
21:22 < rxr> yeah - and yet 4 devels ... :-)
21:22 < valentin> the thing is, i do not want to browse through a list of possible updates that i have rejected the week before
21:23 < rxr> we do not want to have so many lingering files - this would get conflicts when the tested runs svn up and packages got moved or updated ...
21:23 < rxr> what about this:
21:23 < rxr> test for update, run the build test as user update-tester (e.g. not root)
21:23 < valentin> as i said - we could store theese files elsewhere
21:23 < rxr> if (update build)
21:24 < rxr> mail (diff);
21:24 < rxr> else
21:24 < rxr> mail(some nice message what was done, how it failed);
21:24 < rxr> mark the test as done in tmp/updates-tested.lst
21:24 < rxr> or so ...
21:25 < valentin> the marking is what i want the .updated-desc files for
21:25 < rxr> but -desc is misleading, and in fact for svn up reasons it should not be in the package directories ...
21:26 < valentin> -desc was _your_ proposal
21:26 < rxr> you wrote alt desc in the first place ...
21:26 < valentin> where ?
21:26 < rxr> well - but when you do not want to parse some extra list
21:26 < valentin> i talked about something completely different in the begining of that discussion
21:26 < rxr> you can also store the .desc in tmp/tried-updates/$pkg.desc
21:27 < rxr> and get a code path like
21:27 < rxr> if file exists tmp/tried-update/$pkg.desc
21:27 < rxr>  // use that one
21:27 < rxr> else use package/*/$pkg/$pkg.desc
21:27 < rxr> ---
21:28 < rxr> 21:02 < valentin> ./bin/TestUpdate pkgname some-other-[D]-tags
21:28 < valentin> this is code path for update build ?
21:28 < rxr> ^- sounded like that ...
21:28 < valentin> yes
21:28 < valentin> 21:02 < valentin> ./bin/TestUpdate pkgname some-other-[D]-tags
21:28 < valentin> was for
21:28 < valentin> if (update build)
21:28 < rxr> well - implement what you feel is right - I'm convinced you bing something useable into trunk :-)
21:29 < valentin> if it turns out to be unusable anybody here can revert it *g*
21:30 < rxr> I trust you coding and design abilities
21:30 < rxr> I'm sure I do not need to revert it - maybe fixing a single typo or so *g*
21:33 < valentin> thx for your trust :)
21:38 < rxr> oh my windows admins:
21:38 < rxr> My next question is: What's better to use fsfs or bdb. The server is windows 2000 box with apache. I have read the pro and cons, but I'm not able to choose one.
21:39 < rxr> they are not even able to choose s.th. according their needs when they even have a list of pros and conds :-(
21:39 < rxr> conts even
21:40 < jsaw_> re
21:41 < rxr> http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp?id=ns24611
21:41 < rxr> ^- Chernobyl engeneer interview
21:52 < rxr> hm - not that many new things in it ... no idea why /. runs it ...
21:52 < rxr> maybe they nearly never heared about "it" over there ... 
21:52 < jsaw_> probably...
21:54 < rxr> the only new thing for me was: "Wow - someone standing in the reactor nearby overlived this up to today ... :-("
21:54  * rxr back to happier things ...
21:58 < jsaw_> read the comment by funkdid (Re: Unpatriotic)?
21:58 < jsaw_> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=119161&cid=10059286
21:59 < rxr> oh - this is uk - I thought it is us ...
22:00 < rxr> hm - I do not get discovery channel here in berlin via dvb-t ... :-(
22:12 < rxr> hm - xprint scheint das druckergebnis von Mozilla signifikant zu verbessern
22:12 < rxr> erhm - xpring seems to enhance the printing output of mozilla significantly
22:13 < rxr> just viewed some generated .jpg's from some sites and the output looked quite perfect
22:13 < rxr> not like the junk mozilla throws into lpr natively ....
22:13 < rxr> maybe one day I should try it ...
22:17  * rxr off for evening meal
22:20 < jsaw_> cu, /me off for experiments
22:36 < rxr> re
--- Log closed Tue Aug 24 00:00:32 2004