T2 IRC Log: 2004-11-19
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Fri Nov 19 00:00:39 2004
00:09 -!- praenti [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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02:36 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.197.123.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
02:36 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | the system development environment | http://www.exactcode.de/t2
02:36 -!- Topic set by valentin [] [Sun Nov 7 16:41:27 2004]
02:36 [Users #t2]
02:36 [ _martin ] [ CIA-9] [ mnemoc ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
02:36 [ _Ragnar_] [ jsaw ] [ praenti] [ rxr_]
02:36 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 9 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 9 normal]
02:36 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
02:36 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
02:36 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 11 secs
02:52 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.223.194.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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09:11 < rxr_> re
09:11 -!- You're now known as rxr
09:12 [Users #t2]
09:12 [ _martin ] [ CIA-9] [ mnemoc ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
09:12 [ _Ragnar__] [ jsaw ] [ praenti] [ sparc-kly]
09:12 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 9 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 9 normal]
09:36 < rxr> brrrrrrr - this black tee got strong ... :-(
09:37 -!- nzg [~tschmidt@p508EBF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
10:33 < _martin> moin
10:44 < rxr> moin _martin
12:24 -!- _Ragnar__ [loki@abarrach.franken.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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13:45 < sparc-kly> kensai bitch
13:46 < kensai> sparc-kly, equall as you man
13:46 < kensai> ;)
13:56 < rxr> moin
14:02 < sparc-kly> moin
14:02 < sparc-kly> kensai no man , i am high class bitch .
14:03 < sparc-kly> LOL
14:03 < kensai> sparc-kly, lol
14:03 < kensai> sparc-kly, but still a bitch
14:03 < kensai> sparc-kly, linux users are PIMPs ;)
14:04 < kensai> ;-;
14:09 * kensai restarts X as he upgraded Gnome 2.9.1 to the very latest ;)
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14:49 < _martin> Hi rxr
14:50 < _martin> I hate this fucking gentoo on the board. Is there a rock/t2 for the via board?
14:50 * _martin drive home (and reinstall linux on the via board)
14:50 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:56 < rxr> _martin: then come over
14:56 < rxr> I have a nearly finished pentium-mmx optimized T2 lying around ...
14:57 < rxr> and I would even polish it a bit more just to replace the f*ckin' gentoo on that via board ...
14:58 * rxr should not be that hard to gentoo when I'm typing in macosx right now ;-)
15:03 < _martin> I need it today ...
15:04 < rxr> I have it today
15:04 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has joined #t2
15:07 < mnemoc> moin!
15:08 < rxr> moin!
15:10 < mnemoc> rxr: i removed jsaw patch, and started a new clean bootdisk
15:11 < mnemoc> which worked perfectly
15:11 < mnemoc> did you removed or fixed md5 issue?
15:11 < rxr> nope - not that I know off ...
15:12 < mnemoc> oh
15:12 < rxr> does it mean the full target does build now for you?
15:12 < mnemoc> yes
15:12 < mnemoc> full bootdisk without local diet
15:12 < mnemoc> and yes, md5.o was built
15:13 < rxr> interesting
15:13 < mnemoc> Error logs from boot-2.1.0-beta-x86-pentium-mmx-32-bootdisk-expert:
15:14 < mnemoc> 160 builds total, 160 completed fine, 0 with errors.
15:14 < mnemoc> and both initrd are built
15:14 < rxr> not good that the error vanished without action ...
15:14 < rxr> but good that you have a bootdisk target ;-)
15:15 < mnemoc> maybe there was action, with this nice side effect
15:15 < rxr> hm - gcc protector patch was updated ....
15:16 * rxr booting into linux since macosx get's on my nerves ...
15:18 < mnemoc> i guess bootdisk doesn't use protector
15:22 < rxr> yep - but maybe the prev. protector patch was defective ...
15:22 < rxr> you asked for side-effects - I just named one ...
15:22 < mnemoc> :)
15:28 < rxr> pugging out a usb scanner:
15:28 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 73.034 msecs
15:28 < rxr> plugging it back in:
15:28 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 32.006 msecs
15:28 < rxr> :-((((((((((((((((((((
15:28 < mnemoc> o_O
15:28 < rxr> I need to do s.th. about that - s.th. bored in "rock"plug ... or so ...
15:28 < mnemoc> rockplug.cc ?
15:29 < rxr> btw. we should rename it - what about newplug ;-)
15:29 < jsaw> t2plug.cc
15:29 < rxr> mnemoc: ?
15:29 < mnemoc> :)
15:29 < jsaw> hi
15:29 < mnemoc> hi jsaw
15:29 < rxr> I want to get away from tthis ROCKnism naming ...
15:29 < mnemoc> jsaw: read last 20 minutes please
15:29 < rxr> so no simple s/ROCK/T2/ please ...
15:29 < mnemoc> T2Linux
15:29 < rxr> hi jsaw !
15:30 < mnemoc> /etc needs a clean up, and we may jump to FSH2.0
15:30 < jsaw> mnemoc: which patch of mine???
15:30 < rxr> ouhm: unplug
15:30 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 395.000 msecs
15:30 < rxr> replug:
15:30 < mnemoc> jsaw: -isystem on gcc stecs
15:30 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 450.745 msecs
15:30 < mnemoc> specs
15:30 < rxr> :-O
15:30 < mnemoc> rxr: outch
15:30 * rxr needs to debug that ...
15:31 < jsaw> bkl?
15:31 < rxr> s.th. rockplug depended I gues
15:31 < rxr> les me check
15:31 < rxr> let even
15:31 < rxr> yep this curred it:
15:31 < rxr> # echo /bin/true > /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug
15:31 < rxr> ;-)
15:32 < jsaw> ?
15:32 < rxr> jsaw: yes?
15:32 < jsaw> echo /bin/true <- ????
15:32 < rxr> of course not commented out ...
15:32 < rxr> yep - a NOP ;-)
15:32 < rxr> do nothing on hotplug ;-)
15:33 < mnemoc> true or cat ?
15:33 < mnemoc> does it need stdin?
15:33 < jsaw> echo 0|1 > /proc...
15:33 < rxr> hotplug takes the path to the executable to be executed ...
15:33 < rxr> where is the problemn *g*?
15:33 < jsaw> ah, way too long ago...
15:33 < rxr> ;-)
15:34 < jsaw> so, calling hotplug script blocks some parts of the kernel... hmm.
15:34 < rxr> maybe rockplug takes 400ms for the actions - but I doubt that since we cache ... and the kernel does not schedule until the return - no idea - needs a revbiew
15:34 < jsaw> rebeview?
15:35 < jsaw> :)
15:35 < rxr> review ...
15:35 < mnemoc> a=)
15:35 < rxr> I have another rockplug bug on the todo anyway
15:35 < jsaw> ever looked at diethotplug?
15:35 * mnemoc wonders about udev performance in that case
15:35 < rxr> no
15:35 < jsaw> probably we should ...
15:36 < rxr> mnemoc: udev performs quite well - I was supriesed, too ... - but it is written in C without much shell scripting ...
15:36 < rxr> I have some mail from someone wanting to see a C++ hotplug, too ...
15:36 < mnemoc> PATH searchs and exec are expensive
15:37 < mnemoc> t2plug.cc
15:37 < rxr> more likely newplug.cc or hotplug++.cc ;-)
15:38 < mnemoc> hotplug++ sounds cool
15:39 < rxr> huh? the last diethoplug release is from 2002 ?!?
15:39 < rxr> 2002-01-09 14:09
15:40 < rxr> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=17679
15:42 < rxr> 20 Changesets in the last three years
15:43 < mnemoc> due it is perfect, it doesn't need any more changes :D .... like qmail
15:44 < mnemoc> every proposed patch is rejected because DJB's code is perfect
15:44 < rxr> http://linuxusb.bkbits.net:8080/dietHotplug/src?nav=index.html
15:44 < mnemoc> even errno.patch because thats glibc's fault :\
15:44 < rxr> I doubt - since there was much flux in the linux hotplug world in the last 2 years ...
15:45 < mnemoc> 34 month?
15:47 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:47 < rxr> ok - so better a hotplug++ ;-)
15:48 < mnemoc> :D
15:49 < jsaw> focusing on udev, sysfs?
15:50 < mnemoc> _portable_
15:51 < rxr> jsaw: what is your question intending?
15:52 < mnemoc> i think: do you want to support udev, sysfs?
15:52 < jsaw> I guess you got it already. What's the direction t2 will take in resp. to devfs?
15:53 < mnemoc> hotplug++.conf: mode=udev // mode=devfs
15:55 < rxr> I reviewed udev - my initial fear was not supported - it is quite neat ...
15:56 < rxr> hotplug is pretty much udev independant ...
15:56 < jsaw> yes, just read it. Only how to gather information has to be taken into account. sysfs/proc
15:58 < mnemoc> rxr: is your article on english? :)
15:58 < jsaw> gotta work a bit, bbl
15:59 < rxr> mnemoc: the aricle is queued anyway - published in 2005/01 or so ...
15:59 < mnemoc> :'(
15:59 < rxr> since they thought other GUI stuff is more interesting compared to s.th. abstract as udev ...
16:00 < mnemoc> jsaw: hey, work is a waste of time :p
16:00 < rxr> haha
16:01 * jsaw wastes a lot of time now, instead of getting kicked by boss
16:02 < mnemoc> =)
16:02 < mnemoc> sadly with two children you can't kick your boss :\
16:46 < rxr> damn - I need s.th. to eat - and fresh tee
16:46 * mnemoc hungry too
17:01 < mnemoc> rxr, valentin: here?
17:02 < mnemoc> http://svn.geeks.cl/atarigo/players/human_player.cc <--- how should i call game's Register() function ?
17:04 -!- sparc-kly [~MuBeX@65-23-199-247.prtc.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
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18:07 < rxr> ppp 2.4.3
18:07 < rxr> update anyone?
18:07 < rxr> DOSBox 0.63
18:08 < rxr> "... MS has patented BASIC's IsNot operator."
18:09 < rxr> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040230959%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040230959&RS=DN/20040230959
18:14 -!- _Ragnar_ [loki@abarrach.franken.de] has joined #t2
18:19 < mnemoc> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/biztech/11/19/tech.microsoft.reut/index.html
18:25 -!- _martin [~martin@brln-d9ba08b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:29 -!- martin_ [~martin@brln-d9ba09ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #t2
18:29 < martin_> re
18:30 < rxr> hi
18:31 -!- Minto [~chatzilla@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
18:34 < Minto> Hi guys (are there any dolls as well?)
18:34 < Minto> rxr: I tried to mail the patch I created yesterday
18:34 < Minto> however it did not show up on the ML
18:34 < Minto> can I mail attachments?
18:36 < rxr> hi Minto
18:36 < rxr> you should be able to
18:36 < rxr> did you got an error message?
18:36 < Minto> I will try again then
18:37 < rxr> yeah - just ping me here when you hit sent
18:37 < rxr> I can look into the log file ...
18:40 < Minto> rxr: I've just sent it again
18:42 < Minto> I also sent it to another email address of mine and it came through.
18:42 < Minto> it look a bit double though.
18:43 < rxr> ouhm
18:44 < mnemoc> i mailed ML too, without getting it back
18:44 < mnemoc> i forgot it
18:45 < mnemoc> oh
18:45 < mnemoc> minto's just got here
18:45 < mnemoc> sent today 2 minutes ago
18:47 < mnemoc> Minto: query, your server is taged as spammer
18:47 < rxr> hm?
18:47 < rxr> what
18:50 < mnemoc> i loose two mails sent to t2ML
18:51 < rxr> yeah - sever setup error
18:51 < rxr> me working on it ..
18:51 < rxr> nothing should be lost
18:51 < rxr> they should show up soon
18:54 < mnemoc> :)
18:54 < Minto> I got my mail as well
18:54 < Minto> Somehow I received it twice.
18:55 < rxr> damn - s.th. is f*cked up with thy nullmailer setup ...
18:55 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:55 < mnemoc> Minto: did you saw the spamassassin log i queried you?
18:55 < Minto> mnemoc: no
18:56 < rxr> mnemoc: s.th. I should know?
18:56 < mnemoc> Minto's server is tagged as open-{proxy,relay}
18:56 < mnemoc> and his mails get 6.0 points here
18:57 < Minto> Why is that?
18:57 < rxr> ah - good that I do not like those lists anway and do not use them ...
18:57 < Minto> Is because of the long message I sent yesterday
18:57 < martin_> ~~
18:57 < rxr> just that our nullmaier is broken since the last power shortage ...
18:58 < Minto> I meant: Is it because of the long message I sent yesterday?
19:00 < mnemoc> Minto: watch my query to you
19:00 < mnemoc> your _server_ is labeled on black lists
19:01 < mnemoc> at sorbs.net
19:01 < mnemoc> on every balck list they have :p
19:02 < Minto> Strange? I don't have a mail server myself. I the my ISP for that.
19:02 < Minto> It 's one of the bigger ISP over here in the Netherlands.
19:02 < CIA-9> rene * r4750 /trunk/package/base/linux24/rwsem-spinlock-fastcall.patch:
19:02 < CIA-9> Minto van der Sluis
19:02 < CIA-9> * fixed linux24 for generic i386 builds
19:03 < mnemoc> Minto: phone them :)
19:03 < _Ragnar_> that doesn't matter if you run any mta software like sendmail
19:04 < mnemoc> it does matter if the receiver auto-delete your mails due to high score
19:04 < mnemoc> 6.0! i auto-delete >=5 on the 6 servers i admin
19:05 < _Ragnar_> is the mail really coming from his isp, or from his own comp?
19:05 < Minto> I don't use an MTA other than the ISP's one. Being embarassed, I have to admit that I use windows
19:05 < rxr> strance
19:05 < Minto> and mozilla thunderbird for e-mail.
19:05 < rxr> strange even
19:06 < rxr> nullmailer fails to start up properly when the queue is non empty ...
19:06 < mnemoc> o_O
19:07 < Minto> Like I mentioned before. I did sent a message yesterday that got through
19:07 < Minto> the one about an ultimate T2 build server.
19:09 < rxr> Minto: what mnemoc is talking about has most probably nothing to do with the t2 list as it - on my side all of your mails are fine. That there was some delay was due to my server problems over here ...
19:09 < rxr> mnemoc: you miss mails you sent to the t2 list=?
19:09 < mnemoc> rxr: i got 3.5 on every mail from your list! ... it is you!
19:09 < mnemoc> i got them 1 minute ag :)
19:10 < mnemoc> ago*
19:10 < rxr> mnemoc: so you now mean my server is on some blacklist?
19:10 < Minto> I got them too now, and mine from yesterday.
19:10 < mnemoc> http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=212.202.170.162
19:11 < mnemoc> is that IP yours?
19:11 < rxr> jups
19:12 < rxr> or better sort of - valentins ...
19:12 < mnemoc> port-212-202-170-162.dynamic.qsc.de
19:12 < rxr> mnemoc: do not use this shit f*cking lists ...
19:12 < mnemoc> you told me i was IRC-centrish :p
19:13 < rxr> ?
19:13 < mnemoc> when i told about using CIa to notify mails you told me i was too IRC-centered
19:13 < mnemoc> and now you say "do not use this shit f*cking lists"
19:14 < mnemoc> should i phone you? :p
19:14 < rxr> the black list of course ...
19:14 < rxr> they are always full of crap ...
19:14 < mnemoc> aaa..
19:14 < mnemoc> :)
19:14 < rxr> I request removal from the list now ...
19:15 < mnemoc> http://openrbl.org/ip/212/202/170/162.htm <--- this is even worse to you
19:15 < mnemoc> rxr: almost 95% of the mail my servers get is spam, i MUST filter
19:17 < rxr> sure - just do normal content filtering ...
19:17 < rxr> the lists suck majorly ...
19:17 < mnemoc> OT: http://svn.geeks.cl/atarigo/players/human_player.cc <--- what is wrong there?
19:19 < rxr> ??????
19:20 < rxr> maybe:
19:20 < rxr> game.Register ("HumanPlayer", new IPlayerFactory );
19:20 < rxr> does do.
19:20 < mnemoc> this ultra dummy code doesn'y f* compile :(
19:20 < rxr> what is the error ?
19:21 < mnemoc> players/human_player.cc:6: error: syntax error before `.'
19:22 < rxr> so - it does not like game_._ ?
19:22 < rxr> where is it from? what is the rest of the code ... ...
19:23 < mnemoc> ..
19:24 < mnemoc> that's the svn re´p
19:24 < mnemoc> repo
19:25 < Minto> mnemoc: should the line of code not be inside some sort of function??????
19:26 < rxr> mnemoc: I can not get us off most lists due to dynamic assignment
19:26 < rxr> mnemoc: just do not use those crap list - please!
19:26 < rxr> they just suck
19:26 < mnemoc> rxr :)
19:26 < rxr> why do people like to use those crappy shit fuking lists that contain such random garbage?
19:26 < mnemoc> when i update spamassassin i'll remove those rules
19:27 < Minto> rxr: probably the same reason why people use MS Windows
19:27 < mnemoc> because they are cheaper than checking content
19:28 < rxr> I see on the ALSA list how useful that is - spam anyway and I can not post ...
19:28 < rxr> and where spam anyway means 50% spam on some days ...
19:31 < Minto> mnemoc: about your C++ problem in human_player.cc
19:31 < Minto> C++ is not a scripting language
19:31 < Minto> every line of code should be inside a function
19:31 < Minto> only declarations can go outside a function.
19:32 < mnemoc> how can i force a function to be called when that .o is loaded?
19:33 < rxr> .o loaded?
19:33 < rxr> you mean s.th. like static initialization ...
19:33 < rxr> ?
19:33 < mnemoc> i will have _lot_ of generated players
19:33 < mnemoc> i can't know all of them
19:34 < mnemoc> players will be geneticly created and loaded on run time
19:34 < Minto> If you don't know where, you might try main()
19:34 < mnemoc> choosing couple and forces to battle a few times between them
19:35 < mnemoc> Minto: those players are generated, random names
19:35 < mnemoc> Minto: how can i know what simbol to call?
19:35 < Minto> Doesn't matter. Even when adding players at runtime, you probably get somekind of event
19:35 < Minto> when to add an additional player
19:36 < Minto> this event will be handled by some function...
19:36 < Minto> in that function you can call your line of code. with a runtime name.
19:36 * mnemoc doesn't know what to do now :\
19:37 < Minto> is everything in the repo from you? I will have a look.
19:37 < Minto> But first I have make some coffee :-)
19:38 < mnemoc> i'm just starting to code
19:39 < Minto> Is your code a library or an app?
19:39 < mnemoc> i'll have to register all players available choose couple and make them play
19:39 < mnemoc> currently app
19:39 < mnemoc> players will be .so
19:39 < Minto> then you also have a main, where is it?
19:40 < mnemoc> yep
19:40 < Minto> I found it, but it doesn't do much.
19:40 < mnemoc> does nothing :D
19:40 < mnemoc> i wnated to try .o before getting into .so
19:41 < rxr> I have not looked at the code - but you do not want that
19:41 < rxr> on what condition do you want to create your players?
19:42 < Minto> Try doing exe before doing so
19:42 < rxr> why .so ?
19:42 < mnemoc> i don't know
19:42 < rxr> do you have several different kinds of human classes?
19:42 < mnemoc> players will be created geneticly
19:43 < mnemoc> only one human :D
19:43 < rxr> what do you mean exactly?
19:43 < rxr> how are they generically created?
19:43 < mnemoc> one human, one pipe and many many 'inteligent' players
19:44 < mnemoc> i'll have a language stated as a graph for each players
19:44 < rxr> sorry I do not yet understand your design - so I can not help you how this should be done cleanly in C++ ...
19:44 < mnemoc> that graph will be converted to an object
19:44 < mnemoc> and that object used to do play decitions
19:44 < mnemoc> the player how win will be preserved
19:45 < mnemoc> the player who loose will be removed
19:45 < mnemoc> winers will cross-over generating children
19:45 < mnemoc> which will play on the next round
19:47 < mnemoc> i'll go back to office now
19:47 * mnemoc depresed
19:47 < Minto> create your players where you read your graph
19:47 < mnemoc> be back in 15 minutes
19:49 < rxr> but your players are all of the same class? just difference instaces with difference values?
19:50 -!- nzg [~tschmidt@p508EBF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20:05 < valentin> mnemoc: do not horrify my inovative code :)
20:09 < valentin> how nice to have ma
20:10 < valentin> my small cute and silent iBook back
20:10 < valentin> thogh i have to relearn the backspace key position :)
20:10 < mnemoc> re
20:10 < valentin> two weeks typing on a sun keyboard made me dizzy
20:11 < valentin> hi mnemoc
20:11 < rxr> hi
20:11 < mnemoc> rxr: they have different implementations of the functions
20:11 < rxr> so they are derived classes?
20:11 < mnemoc> can i instanciate an object outside functions?
20:11 < mnemoc> rxr: yes
20:13 < mnemoc> is this valid outside a function: ?
20:13 < mnemoc> extern Game game;
20:13 < mnemoc> PlayerCreator p(game);
20:14 < valentin> mnemoc: yes
20:14 < rxr> ouhm
20:14 < valentin> but you should have one object where you have a
20:14 < valentin> Game game
20:15 < Minto> Why would you want PlayerCreator outside a function if you want to create player dynamically?
20:15 < mnemoc> game is instanciated on game.o which is included into the binary before the players
20:16 < mnemoc> i was thinking in registering the player on PlayerCreators' constructor
20:16 < valentin> mnemoc: players are in .o files or in .so files ?
20:16 < mnemoc> Minto: what do you propose? .... i'm very confused right now
20:17 < Minto> This way the player will not be created dynamically, but right at app startup time.
20:17 < mnemoc> valentin: .o
20:17 < Minto> You mentioned creating player acording to a graph
20:17 < valentin> so you link all those .o files together
20:17 < Minto> where do you read the graph?
20:17 < mnemoc> it on paper :\
20:17 < mnemoc> i haven't coded it yet
20:18 < mnemoc> valentin: i planned to do one .o per player
20:18 < mnemoc> one first tries
20:18 < valentin> if you know all your players at compile time, then you can register them in the main routine
20:18 < Minto> For testing purposes you might start creating player in main()
20:18 < mnemoc> after i got the game going i wanted to turn it .so
20:18 < mnemoc> Minto: hardcoded?
20:19 < valentin> the dynamic aproach only makes sense, if the player list is not known at compile time, i.e you want a plugin loader
20:19 < Minto> I said for testing purposes. The line you already got is hardcoded as well, and not working ;-)
20:19 < mnemoc> :(
20:20 < mnemoc> valentin: players list was and interim state before i got them as .so :(
20:20 < mnemoc> i think i'll have to redesign this whole s.th
20:20 < Minto> Once you have the graph stuff coded you can swith to dynamic creation.
20:20 < valentin> mnemoc: you already have the framework for dynamic creation
20:21 < valentin> consider that
20:21 < valentin> mom
20:22 < valentin> extend your IPlayerFactory
20:23 < valentin> or no, better write an own object
20:23 < mnemoc> .oO( i put the I on the wrong class )o
20:24 < valentin> class HumanFactory : public IPlayerFactory {
20:24 < valentin> public:
20:24 < valentin> HumanFactory () { game.register ("human", this);}
20:24 < valentin> } human_factory;
20:25 < valentin> if you have sth like that (you could create a MACRO *g*) it does not matter wether you have .o or .so
20:25 < valentin> oh - wait
20:25 < valentin> in case you use .o, you should be carefull
20:26 < valentin> because game constructor must have been called before human_factory constructor
20:26 < valentin> but for dynamicaly loaded .so files that works
20:26 < mnemoc> does gcc respect the order of .o files?
20:26 < valentin> no PluginInit () function mess or so
20:26 < valentin> mnemoc: i think so
20:26 < mnemoc> :)
20:26 < valentin> but that is a bit critical :)
20:27 < mnemoc> i know :)
20:27 < rxr> I think I just found an iBook buttom foot on my floor ...
20:27 < rxr> valentin: did you miss one?
20:27 < rxr> on my iBook all are present ...
20:27 < valentin> nope - all there
20:28 < valentin> maybe i lost one but apple support gave me back
20:28 < mnemoc> to have three C++ gurus on the same channel is great :p
20:28 < valentin> mnemoc: depends
20:28 < valentin> gurus tend to have their own philosophies
20:29 < mnemoc> Minto's approach is far different, but he gave me some very cool ideas.... but i'll have to wait until the graph manager is finished
20:30 < Minto> thanx
20:30 < mnemoc> :D
20:33 < Minto> mnemoc: don't mind the order of the .o files ...
20:33 < Minto> the linker will merge them together to form an .so or app.
20:36 < valentin> Minto: that is not true
20:36 < valentin> consider
20:36 < valentin> A.c :
20:36 < valentin> extern int x
20:36 < valentin> int y
20:36 < valentin> B.c :
20:36 < valentin> extern int y
20:36 < valentin> int x
20:37 < rxr> Minto: is in C++ ? Cool so he will not object a T2 build system to C++ transition ... ,-)
20:37 < mnemoc> :D
20:37 < Minto> Well actually why did you choose c++ fo the transition?
20:37 < valentin> there has to be an order of initialisation, so if both object uses the other you have a problem
20:39 < Minto> Like mnemoc said. I do C++ and would not write code like that.
20:40 < mnemoc> oh
20:40 < Minto> I even consider code like that bad, since it does have circular reference.
20:41 < valentin> yes, but are you sure the compiler always orders code correctly when there are none ?
20:41 < Minto> One object (B) can refer to another one (A), but A should never refer back to B
20:41 < Minto> I use callbacks for that
20:41 < valentin> it should, but doesn't mean it does not compile
20:41 < mnemoc> define callback please
20:42 < valentin> Minto: callbacks need to be registered -> same problem
20:42 < Minto> Valentin maybe right on the compiler stuff
20:42 < Minto> registering callback is in the other direction. B registers to A then A can call the callback on B.
20:43 < mnemoc> ic
20:43 < Minto> I like my code to have levels
20:43 < Minto> downwards are functions calls
20:43 < valentin> Minto: that is not my point here
20:43 < Minto> upward are callback or events
20:43 < valentin> i am not talking about code design
20:44 < valentin> i am talking about static initialization order for objects in different .o files
20:44 < Minto> Like I said you might be right on the compiler stuff I am not sure.
20:44 * valentin trying :)
20:55 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has joined #t2
20:55 < valentin> this compiler realy sucks
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ g++ a.o b.o main.o
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ ./a.out
20:55 < valentin> 0
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ g++ b.o a.o main.o
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ ./a.out
20:55 < valentin> 1234
20:55 < valentin> so linking order is important
20:55 < mnemoc> =)
20:55 < valentin> at least i was right :)
20:56 < valentin> so be carefull when using extern objects
20:56 < mnemoc> =)
20:57 < mnemoc> i have to be even more carefull cuting branches of my decition tree with a thread :p
20:57 < valentin> .oO
20:57 < valentin> multithreading is evil
20:57 < valentin> though you sometime have to use it
20:58 < mnemoc> i have only have one second per move, i have to do some stuff while i'm waiting :p
20:59 < mnemoc> i can't waste my second cutting
20:59 < valentin> so have much fun :P
20:59 < mnemoc> http://www.wesnoth.org/
21:00 < mnemoc> i didn't knew it :D
21:00 < valentin> looks quite like an old commercial game i know
21:01 < valentin> just do not get the name anymore
21:01 * valentin away for a short time
21:01 < mnemoc> "open source developers don't innovate" :\
21:01 < mnemoc> zelda?
21:03 < rxr> i think warcraft
21:03 < Minto> Sorry I was on the phone for a while, so valentin is right. However,...
21:03 < Minto> the output he showed doesn't tell me anything. Both program's work.
21:04 < Minto> So the linker doesn't mind in what order they are.
21:04 < mnemoc> =)
21:04 < mnemoc> your gcc is smarter than his :p
21:05 < Minto> thanks :D
21:05 < _Ragnar_> it would only matter if one was a .a instead of a .o
21:05 < _Ragnar_> or?
21:06 < Minto> Oeps, I don't know .a
21:06 < mnemoc> .a are a bunch of .o put togheter
21:07 < mnemoc> like a .tar of .a
21:07 < mnemoc> like a .tar of .o i mean
21:07 < Minto> okay, so a kind of library
21:08 < mnemoc> archive :)
21:08 < Minto> Ah :-)
21:08 < mnemoc> the idea of .a is to staticly add object of the library instead of dinamicly open it
21:08 < Minto> I mostly build only .so or app
21:09 < Minto> like the windows .lib
21:09 < mnemoc> yep :p
21:09 < mnemoc> .so vs. .a
21:09 < mnemoc> .dll vs. .lib
21:09 < Minto> Now I understand :-)
21:09 < mnemoc> :D
21:10 < Minto> Back to T2. I now want to build the live CD but my system requires cloop
21:11 < Minto> should I use Build-Pkg or Emerge
21:11 < mnemoc> Emerge = Download + Build-Pkg
21:11 < Minto> Its already downloaded so Build-Pkg will work :-)
21:12 < mnemoc> yep :p
21:16 < rxr> I hope the live-cd works - never tried it .-(
21:17 < valentin> Minto:
21:17 < Minto> yes
21:17 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ cat a.cc
21:17 < valentin> #include "common.hh"
21:17 < valentin> Foo foo (1234);
21:17 < mnemoc> rxr: fake has changed it a _lot_
21:17 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ cat b.cc
21:17 < valentin> #include "common.hh"
21:17 < valentin> extern Foo foo;
21:17 < valentin> int x = foo.i;
21:17 < mnemoc> inow it also use cliffords' COW
21:18 < mnemoc> LDPRELOADED .so to do symlinks
21:18 < valentin> mnemoc: COW ?
21:18 < mnemoc> copy on write
21:19 < valentin> ic
21:19 < mnemoc> UML named it :p
21:19 < valentin> rxr: think it was warlords II or so
21:20 < rxr> the think I played with jonas a lot was warcraft II IIRC ...
21:21 < valentin> yep - but i am not talking about warcraft
21:21 < valentin> i am talking about a round based role strategy game
21:23 < mnemoc> after i finish this damn game, i'll package that game :p
21:24 < mnemoc> Freeciv 2.0.0 beta 4
21:24 < mnemoc> another great clone :p
21:25 < valentin> mnemoc: my gf complains about the freeciv AI players - they are too hard
21:25 < Minto> Valentin: Now I see. That's probably why they have invented the singleton pattern ;-)
21:26 < mnemoc> valentin: some AI players cheat... do freeciv's?
21:27 < valentin> do not know - but they seem to have more money all the time
21:27 < valentin> that one is clever :
21:27 < valentin> http://209.12.131.6/14/LandingPage.asp?c=9&ap=7&ca=9&t=2
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21:39 < valentin> haha - msn search beta refuses searching for statsexamen because the word contains 'sex' ....
21:40 < valentin> Bei der Suche nach Staatsexamen werden möglicherweise sexuelle Inhalte ausgegeben. Ändern Sie Ihre Suchbegriffe, um Ergebnisse zu erhalten.
21:40 < valentin> sorry for the german, but i had to paste it !
21:41 < valentin> http://beta.search.msn.de/results.aspx?q=Staatsexamen&FORM=SSRE
21:41 < _Ragnar_> fucked up
21:42 < valentin> sometimes i realy *love* those M$ morons ... they keep me entertained
21:44 < Minto> Try the dutch spelling on MS Word and they turn makefile into makreel (a kind of fish)
21:45 < Minto> haha
21:46 < valentin> ispell knows makefiles :)
21:48 < valentin> however, msn does not complain about 'sexte'
21:50 < Minto> MS is probably just like GW Bush, ban sex and gays, but still have the largest porn industry ;-)
21:51 < valentin> Minto: here are some interessting links to facts about some of those 'moralic' US states
21:51 < valentin> http://fuckthesouth.com/
21:52 < mnemoc> uhm
21:52 < valentin> interessting that those repuplican/religios countries have the highest divorce and murder rates
21:52 < mnemoc> valentin: what news site do you read? :p
21:53 < valentin> mnemoc: south here means south of US :)
21:53 < valentin> not south of america
21:53 < mnemoc> chile has divorse law since yestarday
21:53 < mnemoc> valentin: :)
21:53 < valentin> mnemoc: i got that link from spiegel.de
21:53 < Minto> still reading, but sounds like a lot of frustration.
21:53 < valentin> a more or less serios german magazine
21:54 < valentin> Minto: i understand some ppl are quite frustrated over there
21:55 < mnemoc> buch got 54% of popular votes, that's a lot of votes
21:55 < mnemoc> bush*
21:55 < Minto> apparently on both sides (pro and con)
21:55 < Minto> I always wonder if the election are fair over there.
21:56 < _Ragnar_> 51%
21:57 < Minto> 51% of what. Half the population doesn't vote.
21:57 < mnemoc> 51% :)
21:58 < _Ragnar_> 51% of votes cast
21:58 < Minto> I know, I will stop ranting. It won't change a thing.
21:58 < mnemoc> if half of the people doesn't vote is their fault to have that s.thy government
21:59 < valentin> yep
21:59 < _Ragnar_> or at least of votes counted by voting systems which are totally insecure and open to tampering in a scenario where statistics already cast suspicions of fraud
21:59 < mnemoc> btw, he s.th president is at chile today
21:59 < mnemoc> s/he/that/
22:00 < Minto> make that: s/he/she/
22:00 < Minto> hehe
22:00 < mnemoc> it is at chile today
22:01 < mnemoc> http://www.apec.org/apec/news___media/media_releases/181104_ammstatement.html <--- great chance for terrorism
22:01 < Minto> is that where you live? I feel sorry for you.
22:01 < Minto> I mean for him visiting, not for you living there.
22:01 < mnemoc> i know =)
22:02 < valentin> mnemoc: do not use that evil t*****ism word in that chat, we are beeing logged ...
22:02 < mnemoc> every president of asia and pacific, including bush and putin are here
22:02 < mnemoc> valentin: oh
22:03 < valentin> mnemoc: what exactly does the chilenian divorce law say ? that you are allowed to divorce ?
22:04 < mnemoc> yes
22:04 < mnemoc> and f*ck your children
22:05 < valentin> i hope that was not meant literaly
22:05 < mnemoc> almost
22:05 < valentin> .oO
22:06 < mnemoc> the approved law (to be modern) doesn't consider much about the state of children after divorce
22:06 < mnemoc> "it will be improved with the time".... BS!
22:06 < mnemoc> a bad law is more dangerous than no not have the law
22:07 < mnemoc> to not have*
22:07 < valentin> how is the state of the children in case the parents are married but live separated because they cannot stand each other any more ?
22:08 < valentin> or do you have to pay for your children when you are marriaged ?
22:08 * valentin no
22:08 * valentin knows nothing about chilenian laws
22:08 < valentin> sorry - still not used to the new backspace location
22:09 < mnemoc> child has to probe money earned by his father and request some cents from it
22:09 < mnemoc> it's pathetic
22:10 < mnemoc> i now many cases of father earning 2M, and giving 100k per child to the mother
22:10 < valentin> hm
22:11 < rxr> huh - whats up here .... ?
22:11 < mnemoc> we are chatting
22:11 < valentin> google bombing :)
22:11 < valentin> and beta.msn bombing
22:11 < Minto> I think valentin thinks about relocating :D
22:14 < mnemoc> valentin: will you come to live to chile? :)
22:14 < valentin> mnemoc: in case of divorce - is the child forced to stay with the mother or may it choose to go with the father
22:14 < valentin> ?
22:14 < mnemoc> father has to probe the mother is not sane to take care of the child
22:15 < mnemoc> children are of their mothers
22:15 < valentin> you are right your divorce law is in a beta state :) (sorry if i insult someone here in the chat)
22:16 < valentin> money for the father child for the mother ...
22:16 < mnemoc> and f*ck your children <--- that's why i said this
22:16 < valentin> mnemoc: where in chile do you live ?
22:17 < mnemoc> rancagua
22:17 < mnemoc> 100k to the south from santiago (capital)
22:17 < mnemoc> and i study at santiago
22:18 < valentin> aha
22:18 < mnemoc> 100km
22:18 < valentin> so i guess you stay in santiago - or do you travel 200km every day ?
22:19 < mnemoc> travel, every day
22:19 < mnemoc> on bus
22:19 < valentin> oh
22:20 < valentin> how long does it take ?
22:20 < mnemoc> from house to university 2:10 hours
22:21 < mnemoc> people on residential areas of santiago, using public system, takes the same time to go to their jobs
22:21 < valentin> so you travel > 4h every day ? respect.
22:21 < mnemoc> i choose to live in a nicer city
22:22 < mnemoc> valentin: i take bus at 6am every day to go to university
22:22 < mnemoc> well not every day
22:22 < mnemoc> as my wife does the same travel we do 0 1 0 1 0 and 1 0 1 0 1
22:22 < valentin> ok
22:22 < mnemoc> where 0:6am 1: 8:15am
22:23 < valentin> found a map with your city
22:23 < valentin> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/chile.gif
22:23 < mnemoc> to wait the 'babysiter'
22:23 < mnemoc> yeah
22:23 < mnemoc> chile is loooong :p
22:24 < mnemoc> the funiest thing is we all talk with the same acent
22:24 < valentin> you have the andes separating you from the rest of south america ;)
22:25 < Minto> I took a look at the picture. Now I know where sugger (sucre) comes from.
22:25 < Minto> Al the way from bolivia.
22:25 < mnemoc> hehe
22:25 < Minto> hehe
22:25 < valentin> why is sucre a 'legal capital' ?
22:26 < mnemoc> http://www.turistel.cl/main/main_index_map_rut.htm
22:26 < mnemoc> valentin: parlament is in one city, president in another
22:26 < mnemoc> bolivia is odd
22:26 < valentin> ic
22:27 < mnemoc> la "real" capital is La Paz
22:27 < mnemoc> but president is at Sucre
22:27 < valentin> santiago is quite big, isn't it ?
22:27 < mnemoc> too big
22:28 < mnemoc> almost as wide as mexico
22:28 < valentin> how many residents ?
22:28 < mnemoc> but with only 5M persons
22:28 < mnemoc> chile has 15M ppl
22:29 < Minto> Bedtime for me now, gn8 all.
22:29 < valentin> gn8
22:29 -!- Minto [~chatzilla@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20040910]"]
22:29 < valentin> so over 30% of your ppl live in the capitol
22:29 < mnemoc> yes
22:29 < valentin> here in Berlin we have about 4M ppl iirc
22:30 < valentin> with 80M residents in germany
22:30 < mnemoc> .ar has 80M too, and buenos aires 16M
22:37 < valentin> think i have to go to bed, too
22:37 < valentin> gn8
22:39 < mnemoc> gn8 valentin
22:40 < rxr> valentin: you ? bed ? now ?
22:40 * rxr puzzled ....
22:40 < rxr> sleep well ;-)
22:41 < mnemoc> =)
23:29 < rxr> ttp://gsmp.exactcode.de/
23:36 < mnemoc> =) freshmeat?
23:37 < rxr> yeah - should update that one day ...
23:38 < rxr> and we should continue to code on gsmp a bit more again ...
23:46 < rxr> cool that I never deleted drock at freshmeat
23:46 * rxr renaming to t2
23:46 < rxr> so we have som initial popularity and vitaility boost ;
23:46 < rxr> -)
23:47 < mnemoc> =)
23:52 < rxr> ok - freshmeat updates submitted ;-)
23:53 < mnemoc> =D
23:53 < rxr> btw is =D happy ? /me doesn't now that emoticon every well ....
23:56 < mnemoc> i think so :)
23:56 < rxr> hehe - ok
23:57 < rxr> http://freshmeat.net/~ReneRebe/
23:57 < rxr> I still got
23:57 < rxr> noone to asign ROCK Linux there too ..
23:58 < rxr> if I would be as evil as clifford deleting others people's mail aliases I could have s/ROCK Linux/T2/ there ;-)
23:58 < rxr> good that I'm not *g*
23:58 < mnemoc> =)
--- Log closed Sat Nov 20 00:00:53 2004
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02:36 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | the system development environment | http://www.exactcode.de/t2
02:36 -!- Topic set by valentin [] [Sun Nov 7 16:41:27 2004]
02:36 [Users #t2]
02:36 [ _martin ] [ CIA-9] [ mnemoc ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
02:36 [ _Ragnar_] [ jsaw ] [ praenti] [ rxr_]
02:36 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 9 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 9 normal]
02:36 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
02:36 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
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09:11 < rxr_> re
09:11 -!- You're now known as rxr
09:12 [Users #t2]
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09:36 < rxr> brrrrrrr - this black tee got strong ... :-(
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10:33 < _martin> moin
10:44 < rxr> moin _martin
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13:45 < sparc-kly> kensai bitch
13:46 < kensai> sparc-kly, equall as you man
13:46 < kensai> ;)
13:56 < rxr> moin
14:02 < sparc-kly> moin
14:02 < sparc-kly> kensai no man , i am high class bitch .
14:03 < sparc-kly> LOL
14:03 < kensai> sparc-kly, lol
14:03 < kensai> sparc-kly, but still a bitch
14:03 < kensai> sparc-kly, linux users are PIMPs ;)
14:04 < kensai> ;-;
14:09 * kensai restarts X as he upgraded Gnome 2.9.1 to the very latest ;)
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14:49 < _martin> Hi rxr
14:50 < _martin> I hate this fucking gentoo on the board. Is there a rock/t2 for the via board?
14:50 * _martin drive home (and reinstall linux on the via board)
14:50 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:56 < rxr> _martin: then come over
14:56 < rxr> I have a nearly finished pentium-mmx optimized T2 lying around ...
14:57 < rxr> and I would even polish it a bit more just to replace the f*ckin' gentoo on that via board ...
14:58 * rxr should not be that hard to gentoo when I'm typing in macosx right now ;-)
15:03 < _martin> I need it today ...
15:04 < rxr> I have it today
15:04 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has joined #t2
15:07 < mnemoc> moin!
15:08 < rxr> moin!
15:10 < mnemoc> rxr: i removed jsaw patch, and started a new clean bootdisk
15:11 < mnemoc> which worked perfectly
15:11 < mnemoc> did you removed or fixed md5 issue?
15:11 < rxr> nope - not that I know off ...
15:12 < mnemoc> oh
15:12 < rxr> does it mean the full target does build now for you?
15:12 < mnemoc> yes
15:12 < mnemoc> full bootdisk without local diet
15:12 < mnemoc> and yes, md5.o was built
15:13 < rxr> interesting
15:13 < mnemoc> Error logs from boot-2.1.0-beta-x86-pentium-mmx-32-bootdisk-expert:
15:14 < mnemoc> 160 builds total, 160 completed fine, 0 with errors.
15:14 < mnemoc> and both initrd are built
15:14 < rxr> not good that the error vanished without action ...
15:14 < rxr> but good that you have a bootdisk target ;-)
15:15 < mnemoc> maybe there was action, with this nice side effect
15:15 < rxr> hm - gcc protector patch was updated ....
15:16 * rxr booting into linux since macosx get's on my nerves ...
15:18 < mnemoc> i guess bootdisk doesn't use protector
15:22 < rxr> yep - but maybe the prev. protector patch was defective ...
15:22 < rxr> you asked for side-effects - I just named one ...
15:22 < mnemoc> :)
15:28 < rxr> pugging out a usb scanner:
15:28 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 73.034 msecs
15:28 < rxr> plugging it back in:
15:28 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 32.006 msecs
15:28 < rxr> :-((((((((((((((((((((
15:28 < mnemoc> o_O
15:28 < rxr> I need to do s.th. about that - s.th. bored in "rock"plug ... or so ...
15:28 < mnemoc> rockplug.cc ?
15:29 < rxr> btw. we should rename it - what about newplug ;-)
15:29 < jsaw> t2plug.cc
15:29 < rxr> mnemoc: ?
15:29 < mnemoc> :)
15:29 < jsaw> hi
15:29 < mnemoc> hi jsaw
15:29 < rxr> I want to get away from tthis ROCKnism naming ...
15:29 < mnemoc> jsaw: read last 20 minutes please
15:29 < rxr> so no simple s/ROCK/T2/ please ...
15:29 < mnemoc> T2Linux
15:29 < rxr> hi jsaw !
15:30 < mnemoc> /etc needs a clean up, and we may jump to FSH2.0
15:30 < jsaw> mnemoc: which patch of mine???
15:30 < rxr> ouhm: unplug
15:30 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 395.000 msecs
15:30 < rxr> replug:
15:30 < mnemoc> jsaw: -isystem on gcc stecs
15:30 < rxr> **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 450.745 msecs
15:30 < mnemoc> specs
15:30 < rxr> :-O
15:30 < mnemoc> rxr: outch
15:30 * rxr needs to debug that ...
15:31 < jsaw> bkl?
15:31 < rxr> s.th. rockplug depended I gues
15:31 < rxr> les me check
15:31 < rxr> let even
15:31 < rxr> yep this curred it:
15:31 < rxr> # echo /bin/true > /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug
15:31 < rxr> ;-)
15:32 < jsaw> ?
15:32 < rxr> jsaw: yes?
15:32 < jsaw> echo /bin/true <- ????
15:32 < rxr> of course not commented out ...
15:32 < rxr> yep - a NOP ;-)
15:32 < rxr> do nothing on hotplug ;-)
15:33 < mnemoc> true or cat ?
15:33 < mnemoc> does it need stdin?
15:33 < jsaw> echo 0|1 > /proc...
15:33 < rxr> hotplug takes the path to the executable to be executed ...
15:33 < rxr> where is the problemn *g*?
15:33 < jsaw> ah, way too long ago...
15:33 < rxr> ;-)
15:34 < jsaw> so, calling hotplug script blocks some parts of the kernel... hmm.
15:34 < rxr> maybe rockplug takes 400ms for the actions - but I doubt that since we cache ... and the kernel does not schedule until the return - no idea - needs a revbiew
15:34 < jsaw> rebeview?
15:35 < jsaw> :)
15:35 < rxr> review ...
15:35 < mnemoc> a=)
15:35 < rxr> I have another rockplug bug on the todo anyway
15:35 < jsaw> ever looked at diethotplug?
15:35 * mnemoc wonders about udev performance in that case
15:35 < rxr> no
15:35 < jsaw> probably we should ...
15:36 < rxr> mnemoc: udev performs quite well - I was supriesed, too ... - but it is written in C without much shell scripting ...
15:36 < rxr> I have some mail from someone wanting to see a C++ hotplug, too ...
15:36 < mnemoc> PATH searchs and exec are expensive
15:37 < mnemoc> t2plug.cc
15:37 < rxr> more likely newplug.cc or hotplug++.cc ;-)
15:38 < mnemoc> hotplug++ sounds cool
15:39 < rxr> huh? the last diethoplug release is from 2002 ?!?
15:39 < rxr> 2002-01-09 14:09
15:40 < rxr> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=17679
15:42 < rxr> 20 Changesets in the last three years
15:43 < mnemoc> due it is perfect, it doesn't need any more changes :D .... like qmail
15:44 < mnemoc> every proposed patch is rejected because DJB's code is perfect
15:44 < rxr> http://linuxusb.bkbits.net:8080/dietHotplug/src?nav=index.html
15:44 < mnemoc> even errno.patch because thats glibc's fault :\
15:44 < rxr> I doubt - since there was much flux in the linux hotplug world in the last 2 years ...
15:45 < mnemoc> 34 month?
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15:47 < rxr> ok - so better a hotplug++ ;-)
15:48 < mnemoc> :D
15:49 < jsaw> focusing on udev, sysfs?
15:50 < mnemoc> _portable_
15:51 < rxr> jsaw: what is your question intending?
15:52 < mnemoc> i think: do you want to support udev, sysfs?
15:52 < jsaw> I guess you got it already. What's the direction t2 will take in resp. to devfs?
15:53 < mnemoc> hotplug++.conf: mode=udev // mode=devfs
15:55 < rxr> I reviewed udev - my initial fear was not supported - it is quite neat ...
15:56 < rxr> hotplug is pretty much udev independant ...
15:56 < jsaw> yes, just read it. Only how to gather information has to be taken into account. sysfs/proc
15:58 < mnemoc> rxr: is your article on english? :)
15:58 < jsaw> gotta work a bit, bbl
15:59 < rxr> mnemoc: the aricle is queued anyway - published in 2005/01 or so ...
15:59 < mnemoc> :'(
15:59 < rxr> since they thought other GUI stuff is more interesting compared to s.th. abstract as udev ...
16:00 < mnemoc> jsaw: hey, work is a waste of time :p
16:00 < rxr> haha
16:01 * jsaw wastes a lot of time now, instead of getting kicked by boss
16:02 < mnemoc> =)
16:02 < mnemoc> sadly with two children you can't kick your boss :\
16:46 < rxr> damn - I need s.th. to eat - and fresh tee
16:46 * mnemoc hungry too
17:01 < mnemoc> rxr, valentin: here?
17:02 < mnemoc> http://svn.geeks.cl/atarigo/players/human_player.cc <--- how should i call game's Register() function ?
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18:07 < rxr> ppp 2.4.3
18:07 < rxr> update anyone?
18:07 < rxr> DOSBox 0.63
18:08 < rxr> "... MS has patented BASIC's IsNot operator."
18:09 < rxr> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040230959%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040230959&RS=DN/20040230959
18:14 -!- _Ragnar_ [loki@abarrach.franken.de] has joined #t2
18:19 < mnemoc> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/biztech/11/19/tech.microsoft.reut/index.html
18:25 -!- _martin [~martin@brln-d9ba08b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:29 -!- martin_ [~martin@brln-d9ba09ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #t2
18:29 < martin_> re
18:30 < rxr> hi
18:31 -!- Minto [~chatzilla@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
18:34 < Minto> Hi guys (are there any dolls as well?)
18:34 < Minto> rxr: I tried to mail the patch I created yesterday
18:34 < Minto> however it did not show up on the ML
18:34 < Minto> can I mail attachments?
18:36 < rxr> hi Minto
18:36 < rxr> you should be able to
18:36 < rxr> did you got an error message?
18:36 < Minto> I will try again then
18:37 < rxr> yeah - just ping me here when you hit sent
18:37 < rxr> I can look into the log file ...
18:40 < Minto> rxr: I've just sent it again
18:42 < Minto> I also sent it to another email address of mine and it came through.
18:42 < Minto> it look a bit double though.
18:43 < rxr> ouhm
18:44 < mnemoc> i mailed ML too, without getting it back
18:44 < mnemoc> i forgot it
18:45 < mnemoc> oh
18:45 < mnemoc> minto's just got here
18:45 < mnemoc> sent today 2 minutes ago
18:47 < mnemoc> Minto: query, your server is taged as spammer
18:47 < rxr> hm?
18:47 < rxr> what
18:50 < mnemoc> i loose two mails sent to t2ML
18:51 < rxr> yeah - sever setup error
18:51 < rxr> me working on it ..
18:51 < rxr> nothing should be lost
18:51 < rxr> they should show up soon
18:54 < mnemoc> :)
18:54 < Minto> I got my mail as well
18:54 < Minto> Somehow I received it twice.
18:55 < rxr> damn - s.th. is f*cked up with thy nullmailer setup ...
18:55 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:55 < mnemoc> Minto: did you saw the spamassassin log i queried you?
18:55 < Minto> mnemoc: no
18:56 < rxr> mnemoc: s.th. I should know?
18:56 < mnemoc> Minto's server is tagged as open-{proxy,relay}
18:56 < mnemoc> and his mails get 6.0 points here
18:57 < Minto> Why is that?
18:57 < rxr> ah - good that I do not like those lists anway and do not use them ...
18:57 < Minto> Is because of the long message I sent yesterday
18:57 < martin_> ~~
18:57 < rxr> just that our nullmaier is broken since the last power shortage ...
18:58 < Minto> I meant: Is it because of the long message I sent yesterday?
19:00 < mnemoc> Minto: watch my query to you
19:00 < mnemoc> your _server_ is labeled on black lists
19:01 < mnemoc> at sorbs.net
19:01 < mnemoc> on every balck list they have :p
19:02 < Minto> Strange? I don't have a mail server myself. I the my ISP for that.
19:02 < Minto> It 's one of the bigger ISP over here in the Netherlands.
19:02 < CIA-9> rene * r4750 /trunk/package/base/linux24/rwsem-spinlock-fastcall.patch:
19:02 < CIA-9> Minto van der Sluis
19:02 < CIA-9> * fixed linux24 for generic i386 builds
19:03 < mnemoc> Minto: phone them :)
19:03 < _Ragnar_> that doesn't matter if you run any mta software like sendmail
19:04 < mnemoc> it does matter if the receiver auto-delete your mails due to high score
19:04 < mnemoc> 6.0! i auto-delete >=5 on the 6 servers i admin
19:05 < _Ragnar_> is the mail really coming from his isp, or from his own comp?
19:05 < Minto> I don't use an MTA other than the ISP's one. Being embarassed, I have to admit that I use windows
19:05 < rxr> strance
19:05 < Minto> and mozilla thunderbird for e-mail.
19:05 < rxr> strange even
19:06 < rxr> nullmailer fails to start up properly when the queue is non empty ...
19:06 < mnemoc> o_O
19:07 < Minto> Like I mentioned before. I did sent a message yesterday that got through
19:07 < Minto> the one about an ultimate T2 build server.
19:09 < rxr> Minto: what mnemoc is talking about has most probably nothing to do with the t2 list as it - on my side all of your mails are fine. That there was some delay was due to my server problems over here ...
19:09 < rxr> mnemoc: you miss mails you sent to the t2 list=?
19:09 < mnemoc> rxr: i got 3.5 on every mail from your list! ... it is you!
19:09 < mnemoc> i got them 1 minute ag :)
19:10 < mnemoc> ago*
19:10 < rxr> mnemoc: so you now mean my server is on some blacklist?
19:10 < Minto> I got them too now, and mine from yesterday.
19:10 < mnemoc> http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=212.202.170.162
19:11 < mnemoc> is that IP yours?
19:11 < rxr> jups
19:12 < rxr> or better sort of - valentins ...
19:12 < mnemoc> port-212-202-170-162.dynamic.qsc.de
19:12 < rxr> mnemoc: do not use this shit f*cking lists ...
19:12 < mnemoc> you told me i was IRC-centrish :p
19:13 < rxr> ?
19:13 < mnemoc> when i told about using CIa to notify mails you told me i was too IRC-centered
19:13 < mnemoc> and now you say "do not use this shit f*cking lists"
19:14 < mnemoc> should i phone you? :p
19:14 < rxr> the black list of course ...
19:14 < rxr> they are always full of crap ...
19:14 < mnemoc> aaa..
19:14 < mnemoc> :)
19:14 < rxr> I request removal from the list now ...
19:15 < mnemoc> http://openrbl.org/ip/212/202/170/162.htm <--- this is even worse to you
19:15 < mnemoc> rxr: almost 95% of the mail my servers get is spam, i MUST filter
19:17 < rxr> sure - just do normal content filtering ...
19:17 < rxr> the lists suck majorly ...
19:17 < mnemoc> OT: http://svn.geeks.cl/atarigo/players/human_player.cc <--- what is wrong there?
19:19 < rxr> ??????
19:20 < rxr> maybe:
19:20 < rxr> game.Register ("HumanPlayer", new IPlayerFactory
19:20 < rxr> does do.
19:20 < mnemoc> this ultra dummy code doesn'y f* compile :(
19:20 < rxr> what is the error ?
19:21 < mnemoc> players/human_player.cc:6: error: syntax error before `.'
19:22 < rxr> so - it does not like game_._ ?
19:22 < rxr> where is it from? what is the rest of the code ... ...
19:23 < mnemoc> ..
19:24 < mnemoc> that's the svn re´p
19:24 < mnemoc> repo
19:25 < Minto> mnemoc: should the line of code not be inside some sort of function??????
19:26 < rxr> mnemoc: I can not get us off most lists due to dynamic assignment
19:26 < rxr> mnemoc: just do not use those crap list - please!
19:26 < rxr> they just suck
19:26 < mnemoc> rxr :)
19:26 < rxr> why do people like to use those crappy shit fuking lists that contain such random garbage?
19:26 < mnemoc> when i update spamassassin i'll remove those rules
19:27 < Minto> rxr: probably the same reason why people use MS Windows
19:27 < mnemoc> because they are cheaper than checking content
19:28 < rxr> I see on the ALSA list how useful that is - spam anyway and I can not post ...
19:28 < rxr> and where spam anyway means 50% spam on some days ...
19:31 < Minto> mnemoc: about your C++ problem in human_player.cc
19:31 < Minto> C++ is not a scripting language
19:31 < Minto> every line of code should be inside a function
19:31 < Minto> only declarations can go outside a function.
19:32 < mnemoc> how can i force a function to be called when that .o is loaded?
19:33 < rxr> .o loaded?
19:33 < rxr> you mean s.th. like static initialization ...
19:33 < rxr> ?
19:33 < mnemoc> i will have _lot_ of generated players
19:33 < mnemoc> i can't know all of them
19:34 < mnemoc> players will be geneticly created and loaded on run time
19:34 < Minto> If you don't know where, you might try main()
19:34 < mnemoc> choosing couple and forces to battle a few times between them
19:35 < mnemoc> Minto: those players are generated, random names
19:35 < mnemoc> Minto: how can i know what simbol to call?
19:35 < Minto> Doesn't matter. Even when adding players at runtime, you probably get somekind of event
19:35 < Minto> when to add an additional player
19:36 < Minto> this event will be handled by some function...
19:36 < Minto> in that function you can call your line of code. with a runtime name.
19:36 * mnemoc doesn't know what to do now :\
19:37 < Minto> is everything in the repo from you? I will have a look.
19:37 < Minto> But first I have make some coffee :-)
19:38 < mnemoc> i'm just starting to code
19:39 < Minto> Is your code a library or an app?
19:39 < mnemoc> i'll have to register all players available choose couple and make them play
19:39 < mnemoc> currently app
19:39 < mnemoc> players will be .so
19:39 < Minto> then you also have a main, where is it?
19:40 < mnemoc> yep
19:40 < Minto> I found it, but it doesn't do much.
19:40 < mnemoc> does nothing :D
19:40 < mnemoc> i wnated to try .o before getting into .so
19:41 < rxr> I have not looked at the code - but you do not want that
19:41 < rxr> on what condition do you want to create your players?
19:42 < Minto> Try doing exe before doing so
19:42 < rxr> why .so ?
19:42 < mnemoc> i don't know
19:42 < rxr> do you have several different kinds of human classes?
19:42 < mnemoc> players will be created geneticly
19:43 < mnemoc> only one human :D
19:43 < rxr> what do you mean exactly?
19:43 < rxr> how are they generically created?
19:43 < mnemoc> one human, one pipe and many many 'inteligent' players
19:44 < mnemoc> i'll have a language stated as a graph for each players
19:44 < rxr> sorry I do not yet understand your design - so I can not help you how this should be done cleanly in C++ ...
19:44 < mnemoc> that graph will be converted to an object
19:44 < mnemoc> and that object used to do play decitions
19:44 < mnemoc> the player how win will be preserved
19:45 < mnemoc> the player who loose will be removed
19:45 < mnemoc> winers will cross-over generating children
19:45 < mnemoc> which will play on the next round
19:47 < mnemoc> i'll go back to office now
19:47 * mnemoc depresed
19:47 < Minto> create your players where you read your graph
19:47 < mnemoc> be back in 15 minutes
19:49 < rxr> but your players are all of the same class? just difference instaces with difference values?
19:50 -!- nzg [~tschmidt@p508EBF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20:05 < valentin> mnemoc: do not horrify my inovative code :)
20:09 < valentin> how nice to have ma
20:10 < valentin> my small cute and silent iBook back
20:10 < valentin> thogh i have to relearn the backspace key position :)
20:10 < mnemoc> re
20:10 < valentin> two weeks typing on a sun keyboard made me dizzy
20:11 < valentin> hi mnemoc
20:11 < rxr> hi
20:11 < mnemoc> rxr: they have different implementations of the functions
20:11 < rxr> so they are derived classes?
20:11 < mnemoc> can i instanciate an object outside functions?
20:11 < mnemoc> rxr: yes
20:13 < mnemoc> is this valid outside a function: ?
20:13 < mnemoc> extern Game game;
20:13 < mnemoc> PlayerCreator p(game);
20:14 < valentin> mnemoc: yes
20:14 < rxr> ouhm
20:14 < valentin> but you should have one object where you have a
20:14 < valentin> Game game
20:15 < Minto> Why would you want PlayerCreator outside a function if you want to create player dynamically?
20:15 < mnemoc> game is instanciated on game.o which is included into the binary before the players
20:16 < mnemoc> i was thinking in registering the player on PlayerCreators' constructor
20:16 < valentin> mnemoc: players are in .o files or in .so files ?
20:16 < mnemoc> Minto: what do you propose? .... i'm very confused right now
20:17 < Minto> This way the player will not be created dynamically, but right at app startup time.
20:17 < mnemoc> valentin: .o
20:17 < Minto> You mentioned creating player acording to a graph
20:17 < valentin> so you link all those .o files together
20:17 < Minto> where do you read the graph?
20:17 < mnemoc> it on paper :\
20:17 < mnemoc> i haven't coded it yet
20:18 < mnemoc> valentin: i planned to do one .o per player
20:18 < mnemoc> one first tries
20:18 < valentin> if you know all your players at compile time, then you can register them in the main routine
20:18 < Minto> For testing purposes you might start creating player in main()
20:18 < mnemoc> after i got the game going i wanted to turn it .so
20:18 < mnemoc> Minto: hardcoded?
20:19 < valentin> the dynamic aproach only makes sense, if the player list is not known at compile time, i.e you want a plugin loader
20:19 < Minto> I said for testing purposes. The line you already got is hardcoded as well, and not working ;-)
20:19 < mnemoc> :(
20:20 < mnemoc> valentin: players list was and interim state before i got them as .so :(
20:20 < mnemoc> i think i'll have to redesign this whole s.th
20:20 < Minto> Once you have the graph stuff coded you can swith to dynamic creation.
20:20 < valentin> mnemoc: you already have the framework for dynamic creation
20:21 < valentin> consider that
20:21 < valentin> mom
20:22 < valentin> extend your IPlayerFactory
20:23 < valentin> or no, better write an own object
20:23 < mnemoc> .oO( i put the I on the wrong class )o
20:24 < valentin> class HumanFactory : public IPlayerFactory
20:24 < valentin> public:
20:24 < valentin> HumanFactory () { game.register ("human", this);}
20:24 < valentin> } human_factory;
20:25 < valentin> if you have sth like that (you could create a MACRO *g*) it does not matter wether you have .o or .so
20:25 < valentin> oh - wait
20:25 < valentin> in case you use .o, you should be carefull
20:26 < valentin> because game constructor must have been called before human_factory constructor
20:26 < valentin> but for dynamicaly loaded .so files that works
20:26 < mnemoc> does gcc respect the order of .o files?
20:26 < valentin> no PluginInit () function mess or so
20:26 < valentin> mnemoc: i think so
20:26 < mnemoc> :)
20:26 < valentin> but that is a bit critical :)
20:27 < mnemoc> i know :)
20:27 < rxr> I think I just found an iBook buttom foot on my floor ...
20:27 < rxr> valentin: did you miss one?
20:27 < rxr> on my iBook all are present ...
20:27 < valentin> nope - all there
20:28 < valentin> maybe i lost one but apple support gave me back
20:28 < mnemoc> to have three C++ gurus on the same channel is great :p
20:28 < valentin> mnemoc: depends
20:28 < valentin> gurus tend to have their own philosophies
20:29 < mnemoc> Minto's approach is far different, but he gave me some very cool ideas.... but i'll have to wait until the graph manager is finished
20:30 < Minto> thanx
20:30 < mnemoc> :D
20:33 < Minto> mnemoc: don't mind the order of the .o files ...
20:33 < Minto> the linker will merge them together to form an .so or app.
20:36 < valentin> Minto: that is not true
20:36 < valentin> consider
20:36 < valentin> A.c :
20:36 < valentin> extern int x
20:36 < valentin> int y
20:36 < valentin> B.c :
20:36 < valentin> extern int y
20:36 < valentin> int x
20:37 < rxr> Minto: is in C++ ? Cool so he will not object a T2 build system to C++ transition ... ,-)
20:37 < mnemoc> :D
20:37 < Minto> Well actually why did you choose c++ fo the transition?
20:37 < valentin> there has to be an order of initialisation, so if both object uses the other you have a problem
20:39 < Minto> Like mnemoc said. I do C++ and would not write code like that.
20:40 < mnemoc> oh
20:40 < Minto> I even consider code like that bad, since it does have circular reference.
20:41 < valentin> yes, but are you sure the compiler always orders code correctly when there are none ?
20:41 < Minto> One object (B) can refer to another one (A), but A should never refer back to B
20:41 < Minto> I use callbacks for that
20:41 < valentin> it should, but doesn't mean it does not compile
20:41 < mnemoc> define callback please
20:42 < valentin> Minto: callbacks need to be registered -> same problem
20:42 < Minto> Valentin maybe right on the compiler stuff
20:42 < Minto> registering callback is in the other direction. B registers to A then A can call the callback on B.
20:43 < mnemoc> ic
20:43 < Minto> I like my code to have levels
20:43 < Minto> downwards are functions calls
20:43 < valentin> Minto: that is not my point here
20:43 < Minto> upward are callback or events
20:43 < valentin> i am not talking about code design
20:44 < valentin> i am talking about static initialization order for objects in different .o files
20:44 < Minto> Like I said you might be right on the compiler stuff I am not sure.
20:44 * valentin trying :)
20:55 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has joined #t2
20:55 < valentin> this compiler realy sucks
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ g++ a.o b.o main.o
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ ./a.out
20:55 < valentin> 0
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ g++ b.o a.o main.o
20:55 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ ./a.out
20:55 < valentin> 1234
20:55 < valentin> so linking order is important
20:55 < mnemoc> =)
20:55 < valentin> at least i was right :)
20:56 < valentin> so be carefull when using extern objects
20:56 < mnemoc> =)
20:57 < mnemoc> i have to be even more carefull cuting branches of my decition tree with a thread :p
20:57 < valentin> .oO
20:57 < valentin> multithreading is evil
20:57 < valentin> though you sometime have to use it
20:58 < mnemoc> i have only have one second per move, i have to do some stuff while i'm waiting :p
20:59 < mnemoc> i can't waste my second cutting
20:59 < valentin> so have much fun :P
20:59 < mnemoc> http://www.wesnoth.org/
21:00 < mnemoc> i didn't knew it :D
21:00 < valentin> looks quite like an old commercial game i know
21:01 < valentin> just do not get the name anymore
21:01 * valentin away for a short time
21:01 < mnemoc> "open source developers don't innovate" :\
21:01 < mnemoc> zelda?
21:03 < rxr> i think warcraft
21:03 < Minto> Sorry I was on the phone for a while, so valentin is right. However,...
21:03 < Minto> the output he showed doesn't tell me anything. Both program's work.
21:04 < Minto> So the linker doesn't mind in what order they are.
21:04 < mnemoc> =)
21:04 < mnemoc> your gcc is smarter than his :p
21:05 < Minto> thanks :D
21:05 < _Ragnar_> it would only matter if one was a .a instead of a .o
21:05 < _Ragnar_> or?
21:06 < Minto> Oeps, I don't know .a
21:06 < mnemoc> .a are a bunch of .o put togheter
21:07 < mnemoc> like a .tar of .a
21:07 < mnemoc> like a .tar of .o i mean
21:07 < Minto> okay, so a kind of library
21:08 < mnemoc> archive :)
21:08 < Minto> Ah :-)
21:08 < mnemoc> the idea of .a is to staticly add object of the library instead of dinamicly open it
21:08 < Minto> I mostly build only .so or app
21:09 < Minto> like the windows .lib
21:09 < mnemoc> yep :p
21:09 < mnemoc> .so vs. .a
21:09 < mnemoc> .dll vs. .lib
21:09 < Minto> Now I understand :-)
21:09 < mnemoc> :D
21:10 < Minto> Back to T2. I now want to build the live CD but my system requires cloop
21:11 < Minto> should I use Build-Pkg or Emerge
21:11 < mnemoc> Emerge = Download + Build-Pkg
21:11 < Minto> Its already downloaded so Build-Pkg will work :-)
21:12 < mnemoc> yep :p
21:16 < rxr> I hope the live-cd works - never tried it .-(
21:17 < valentin> Minto:
21:17 < Minto> yes
21:17 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ cat a.cc
21:17 < valentin> #include "common.hh"
21:17 < valentin> Foo foo (1234);
21:17 < mnemoc> rxr: fake has changed it a _lot_
21:17 < valentin> valentin@majestix:~/weg$ cat b.cc
21:17 < valentin> #include "common.hh"
21:17 < valentin> extern Foo foo;
21:17 < valentin> int x = foo.i;
21:17 < mnemoc> inow it also use cliffords' COW
21:18 < mnemoc> LDPRELOADED .so to do symlinks
21:18 < valentin> mnemoc: COW ?
21:18 < mnemoc> copy on write
21:19 < valentin> ic
21:19 < mnemoc> UML named it :p
21:19 < valentin> rxr: think it was warlords II or so
21:20 < rxr> the think I played with jonas a lot was warcraft II IIRC ...
21:21 < valentin> yep - but i am not talking about warcraft
21:21 < valentin> i am talking about a round based role strategy game
21:23 < mnemoc> after i finish this damn game, i'll package that game :p
21:24 < mnemoc> Freeciv 2.0.0 beta 4
21:24 < mnemoc> another great clone :p
21:25 < valentin> mnemoc: my gf complains about the freeciv AI players - they are too hard
21:25 < Minto> Valentin: Now I see. That's probably why they have invented the singleton pattern ;-)
21:26 < mnemoc> valentin: some AI players cheat... do freeciv's?
21:27 < valentin> do not know - but they seem to have more money all the time
21:27 < valentin> that one is clever :
21:27 < valentin> http://209.12.131.6/14/LandingPage.asp?c=9&ap=7&ca=9&t=2
21:39 -!- kensai [~kensai@64.237.129.108] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:39 < valentin> haha - msn search beta refuses searching for statsexamen because the word contains 'sex' ....
21:40 < valentin> Bei der Suche nach Staatsexamen werden möglicherweise sexuelle Inhalte ausgegeben. Ändern Sie Ihre Suchbegriffe, um Ergebnisse zu erhalten.
21:40 < valentin> sorry for the german, but i had to paste it !
21:41 < valentin> http://beta.search.msn.de/results.aspx?q=Staatsexamen&FORM=SSRE
21:41 < _Ragnar_> fucked up
21:42 < valentin> sometimes i realy *love* those M$ morons ... they keep me entertained
21:44 < Minto> Try the dutch spelling on MS Word and they turn makefile into makreel (a kind of fish)
21:45 < Minto> haha
21:46 < valentin> ispell knows makefiles :)
21:48 < valentin> however, msn does not complain about 'sexte'
21:50 < Minto> MS is probably just like GW Bush, ban sex and gays, but still have the largest porn industry ;-)
21:51 < valentin> Minto: here are some interessting links to facts about some of those 'moralic' US states
21:51 < valentin> http://fuckthesouth.com/
21:52 < mnemoc> uhm
21:52 < valentin> interessting that those repuplican/religios countries have the highest divorce and murder rates
21:52 < mnemoc> valentin: what news site do you read? :p
21:53 < valentin> mnemoc: south here means south of US :)
21:53 < valentin> not south of america
21:53 < mnemoc> chile has divorse law since yestarday
21:53 < mnemoc> valentin: :)
21:53 < valentin> mnemoc: i got that link from spiegel.de
21:53 < Minto> still reading, but sounds like a lot of frustration.
21:53 < valentin> a more or less serios german magazine
21:54 < valentin> Minto: i understand some ppl are quite frustrated over there
21:55 < mnemoc> buch got 54% of popular votes, that's a lot of votes
21:55 < mnemoc> bush*
21:55 < Minto> apparently on both sides (pro and con)
21:55 < Minto> I always wonder if the election are fair over there.
21:56 < _Ragnar_> 51%
21:57 < Minto> 51% of what. Half the population doesn't vote.
21:57 < mnemoc> 51% :)
21:58 < _Ragnar_> 51% of votes cast
21:58 < Minto> I know, I will stop ranting. It won't change a thing.
21:58 < mnemoc> if half of the people doesn't vote is their fault to have that s.thy government
21:59 < valentin> yep
21:59 < _Ragnar_> or at least of votes counted by voting systems which are totally insecure and open to tampering in a scenario where statistics already cast suspicions of fraud
21:59 < mnemoc> btw, he s.th president is at chile today
21:59 < mnemoc> s/he/that/
22:00 < Minto> make that: s/he/she/
22:00 < Minto> hehe
22:00 < mnemoc> it is at chile today
22:01 < mnemoc> http://www.apec.org/apec/news___media/media_releases/181104_ammstatement.html <--- great chance for terrorism
22:01 < Minto> is that where you live? I feel sorry for you.
22:01 < Minto> I mean for him visiting, not for you living there.
22:01 < mnemoc> i know =)
22:02 < valentin> mnemoc: do not use that evil t*****ism word in that chat, we are beeing logged ...
22:02 < mnemoc> every president of asia and pacific, including bush and putin are here
22:02 < mnemoc> valentin: oh
22:03 < valentin> mnemoc: what exactly does the chilenian divorce law say ? that you are allowed to divorce ?
22:04 < mnemoc> yes
22:04 < mnemoc> and f*ck your children
22:05 < valentin> i hope that was not meant literaly
22:05 < mnemoc> almost
22:05 < valentin> .oO
22:06 < mnemoc> the approved law (to be modern) doesn't consider much about the state of children after divorce
22:06 < mnemoc> "it will be improved with the time".... BS!
22:06 < mnemoc> a bad law is more dangerous than no not have the law
22:07 < mnemoc> to not have*
22:07 < valentin> how is the state of the children in case the parents are married but live separated because they cannot stand each other any more ?
22:08 < valentin> or do you have to pay for your children when you are marriaged ?
22:08 * valentin no
22:08 * valentin knows nothing about chilenian laws
22:08 < valentin> sorry - still not used to the new backspace location
22:09 < mnemoc> child has to probe money earned by his father and request some cents from it
22:09 < mnemoc> it's pathetic
22:10 < mnemoc> i now many cases of father earning 2M, and giving 100k per child to the mother
22:10 < valentin> hm
22:11 < rxr> huh - whats up here .... ?
22:11 < mnemoc> we are chatting
22:11 < valentin> google bombing :)
22:11 < valentin> and beta.msn bombing
22:11 < Minto> I think valentin thinks about relocating :D
22:14 < mnemoc> valentin: will you come to live to chile? :)
22:14 < valentin> mnemoc: in case of divorce - is the child forced to stay with the mother or may it choose to go with the father
22:14 < valentin> ?
22:14 < mnemoc> father has to probe the mother is not sane to take care of the child
22:15 < mnemoc> children are of their mothers
22:15 < valentin> you are right your divorce law is in a beta state :) (sorry if i insult someone here in the chat)
22:16 < valentin> money for the father child for the mother ...
22:16 < mnemoc>
22:16 < valentin> mnemoc: where in chile do you live ?
22:17 < mnemoc> rancagua
22:17 < mnemoc> 100k to the south from santiago (capital)
22:17 < mnemoc> and i study at santiago
22:18 < valentin> aha
22:18 < mnemoc> 100km
22:18 < valentin> so i guess you stay in santiago - or do you travel 200km every day ?
22:19 < mnemoc> travel, every day
22:19 < mnemoc> on bus
22:19 < valentin> oh
22:20 < valentin> how long does it take ?
22:20 < mnemoc> from house to university 2:10 hours
22:21 < mnemoc> people on residential areas of santiago, using public system, takes the same time to go to their jobs
22:21 < valentin> so you travel > 4h every day ? respect.
22:21 < mnemoc> i choose to live in a nicer city
22:22 < mnemoc> valentin: i take bus at 6am every day to go to university
22:22 < mnemoc> well not every day
22:22 < mnemoc> as my wife does the same travel we do 0 1 0 1 0 and 1 0 1 0 1
22:22 < valentin> ok
22:22 < mnemoc> where 0:6am 1: 8:15am
22:23 < valentin> found a map with your city
22:23 < valentin> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/chile.gif
22:23 < mnemoc> to wait the 'babysiter'
22:23 < mnemoc> yeah
22:23 < mnemoc> chile is loooong :p
22:24 < mnemoc> the funiest thing is we all talk with the same acent
22:24 < valentin> you have the andes separating you from the rest of south america ;)
22:25 < Minto> I took a look at the picture. Now I know where sugger (sucre) comes from.
22:25 < Minto> Al the way from bolivia.
22:25 < mnemoc> hehe
22:25 < Minto> hehe
22:25 < valentin> why is sucre a 'legal capital' ?
22:26 < mnemoc> http://www.turistel.cl/main/main_index_map_rut.htm
22:26 < mnemoc> valentin: parlament is in one city, president in another
22:26 < mnemoc> bolivia is odd
22:26 < valentin> ic
22:27 < mnemoc> la "real" capital is La Paz
22:27 < mnemoc> but president is at Sucre
22:27 < valentin> santiago is quite big, isn't it ?
22:27 < mnemoc> too big
22:28 < mnemoc> almost as wide as mexico
22:28 < valentin> how many residents ?
22:28 < mnemoc> but with only 5M persons
22:28 < mnemoc> chile has 15M ppl
22:29 < Minto> Bedtime for me now, gn8 all.
22:29 < valentin> gn8
22:29 -!- Minto [~chatzilla@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20040910]"]
22:29 < valentin> so over 30% of your ppl live in the capitol
22:29 < mnemoc> yes
22:29 < valentin> here in Berlin we have about 4M ppl iirc
22:30 < valentin> with 80M residents in germany
22:30 < mnemoc> .ar has 80M too, and buenos aires 16M
22:37 < valentin> think i have to go to bed, too
22:37 < valentin> gn8
22:39 < mnemoc> gn8 valentin
22:40 < rxr> valentin: you ? bed ? now ?
22:40 * rxr puzzled ....
22:40 < rxr> sleep well ;-)
22:41 < mnemoc> =)
23:29 < rxr> ttp://gsmp.exactcode.de/
23:36 < mnemoc> =) freshmeat?
23:37 < rxr> yeah - should update that one day ...
23:38 < rxr> and we should continue to code on gsmp a bit more again ...
23:46 < rxr> cool that I never deleted drock at freshmeat
23:46 * rxr renaming to t2
23:46 < rxr> so we have som initial popularity and vitaility boost ;
23:46 < rxr> -)
23:47 < mnemoc> =)
23:52 < rxr> ok - freshmeat updates submitted ;-)
23:53 < mnemoc> =D
23:53 < rxr> btw is =D happy ? /me doesn't now that emoticon every well ....
23:56 < mnemoc> i think so :)
23:56 < rxr> hehe - ok
23:57 < rxr> http://freshmeat.net/~ReneRebe/
23:57 < rxr> I still got
23:57 < rxr> noone to asign ROCK Linux there too ..
23:58 < rxr> if I would be as evil as clifford deleting others people's mail aliases I could have s/ROCK Linux/T2/ there ;-)
23:58 < rxr> good that I'm not *g*
23:58 < mnemoc> =)
--- Log closed Sat Nov 20 00:00:53 2004