T2 IRC Log: 2004-12-03

This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.

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--- Log opened Fri Dec 03 00:00:17 2004
00:24 < CIA-9> rene * r4925 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
00:24 < CIA-9> * added new cad category
00:24 < CIA-9> * added pcb - a printed circuit board editor
00:24 < CIA-9> * adapted qcad CATEGORY tag
00:49 < mnemoc> moin!
00:51 < rxr> rehi mnemoc ;-)
00:51 < rxr> how was your day?
00:54 < mnemoc> very studied
00:54 < mnemoc> tomorrow i have a very important exam :\
00:55 < rxr> oh - than happy learning
00:56 < mnemoc> thanks :)
00:56 < mnemoc> how has this been?
01:00 < rxr> how has it been over here?
01:00 < rxr> scanner dictating ...
01:01 < rxr> I rework my SANE/Avision backend (http://www.exactcode.de/oss/avision) like crazzy ...
01:02 -!- sparc-kly [~sparc-kly@64.237.130.173] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:04 < mnemoc> rxr: what about the fight about sane with the blog guy?
01:05 < rxr> no fight - it is not my backend - and I do not remote debug other's people backend especially with USB I/O errors intermixed ...
01:06 < rxr> I have enough to do ...
01:06 < rxr> I just can not stand people writing colorful pages that suck and get on the nerve of peopple in IRC instead writing a mail the the driver author in the first place ...
01:06 < rxr> s/that suck/about what sucks/
01:07 < rxr> s/the the/to the/ ...
01:07 < rxr> avision.c | 157 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-----------------
01:07 < rxr> avision.h | 12 ++--
01:07 < rxr> ...
01:07 -!- sparc-kly [~mubex@64.237.130.173] has joined #t2
01:08 < rxr> too bad C is so untyped ... :-(
01:08 < mnemoc> oh
01:09 < rxr> will make my life hard when I split a enum into two ... since the compiler will just compile old assignments that are not of the same enum type anymore ....
01:14 < rxr> I now have thunderbird 1.0rc open on my iBook
01:14 < rxr> the icons changed ...
01:15 < mnemoc> does it build with firefox's gecko? :)
01:15 < rxr> no idea ..
01:15 < rxr> hm - and the progress wheel is tinies - but not yet at the same place as in firefox (not in the menu but in the toolbar)
01:16 < mnemoc> sounds nicer
01:16 < rxr> tinier even ...
01:17 < rxr> have you filled a bug report in the mozilla bugzilla that you now have 3 geckos insatlled on your system?
01:17 < mnemoc> no :\
01:18 < mnemoc> i guess that would be a big dupe, isn't it?
01:18 < rxr> no idea ...
01:18 < rxr> hm - we might consider not isntalling the headers for thunderbird and firefox ...
01:18 < rxr> 96M /opt/firefox/
01:18 < rxr> 176M /opt/thunderbird/
01:18 < rxr> but much stuff might be duplicates due to several version built already ...
01:19 < mnemoc> i have sunbird too :)
01:19 < rxr> this is also on my todo for t2: optionally clean up obsolete files (e.g. not overwriten during update)
01:19 < rxr> rock based systems tend to grow too much for the in-system updates
01:20 < rxr> hope daja is asleep - so the rockers do not get that info to fast to reimplement it ... (or just cut'n paste our code ... - as they seem to have started to do ...)
01:22 < mnemoc> yes?
01:22 < rxr> jsaw's fl_wrapper appeared nearly byte indentically in submaster ...
01:23 < rxr> and I have the feeling that they lurk on our updates ...
01:28 < rxr> but I do not care right now - we can complain when they copy some bigger code technology fragmeent without proper copyright and authro notice
01:31 < mnemoc> rxr: jsaw mailed it
01:31 < rxr> mailed what wher?
01:31 < rxr> +e
01:31 < mnemoc> his patch
01:33 < mnemoc> Hi all.
01:33 < mnemoc> Have a look at this solution (see attachment):
01:33 < mnemoc> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.t2.devel/185
01:33 < mnemoc> George
01:34 < rxr> yeah - but not to rock AFAICS ...
01:34 < rxr> but does not matter that much ...
01:36 < mnemoc> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:14:00 +0100
01:36 < mnemoc> From: Juergen "George" Sawinski
01:36 < mnemoc> To: ROCK Development Mailing List
01:36 < mnemoc> Subject: Re: [rock-devel] Re: flist wrapper patch
01:36 < mnemoc> Message-Id: <20041129061400.350ad5f4.j4y54w@sawinski.de>
01:36 < mnemoc> i want to take some ideas from fake's fix for byteorder to use 2.6.9 headers
01:37 < rxr> .oO
01:38 < rxr> please let use wait the days until .10 and the fix those - maybe they have less regressions ...
01:38 < rxr> s/use/us/
01:38 < rxr> damn - seems my body likes to sleep again ...
01:40 < jsaw> re
01:41 < rxr> hi jsaw
01:41 < mnemoc> rxr: sometime i think sleepeing might be a needing and not a bad habit
01:42 < rxr> I already slept far too long this morning ...
01:43 < jsaw> I mailed the info that I have a solution to the fl_wrapper thing to rock. I was a bit shocked, that no reponse came. Instead this guy (sorry, forgot the name) just copied it without any reference. IMO that's not the best style. I try to always make a note if I copied a fix from somewhere else.
01:43 < rxr> yep - sure ;-)
01:43 < jsaw> hi rxr, mnemoc
01:43 < rxr> I also marked the gcc34.patches I pulled outa rock as such ...
01:44 < mnemoc> hi jsaw
01:45 < mnemoc> jsaw: did you added the comment on submaster?
01:46 < rxr> avision.c | 216 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----------------
01:46 < rxr> avision.h | 20 ++++-
01:46 < jsaw> mnemoc: which comment?
01:47 < mnemoc> you. will you add a 'note' at http://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2004113000334707584 ?
01:47 < mnemoc> may i?
01:48 < jsaw> no.
01:48 < rxr> we decided not to start a flame-war about it ...
01:48 < jsaw> I don't want to. I know it, you know it. That's it. It's GPL.
01:48 < mnemoc> ok
01:49 < rxr> nah - it's not GPL if the author is cutted away - but ...
01:49 < jsaw> (rxr gave a better explanation in one line... ;)
01:50 < jsaw> ehm, as far as i understand the GPL, the copyright of the package also applies to a patch. So, as I didn't add myself to the copyright of fl_wrapper.c, it's ok concerning the GPL. A mere ethical question remains.
01:52 < rxr> ah, well - sure
01:54 < jsaw> in germany I might argue with the UrhG :)
01:54 < jsaw> hehe
01:55 < jsaw> rxr: should we remove lisa?
01:56 < rxr> lisa ?
01:57 < jsaw> [I] A LAN Information Server
01:57 < rxr> yeah - just found it ...
01:57 < rxr> why do you want to remove it ?
01:57 < rxr> is it the thing kde depends on ?
01:57 < jsaw> it doesn't build, its 3 years old...
01:59 < rxr> hm
01:59 < rxr> let's review first if kde depends on it ...
01:59 < jsaw> checking if the homepage changed...
01:59 < rxr> there was s.th. lisa alike that I read between some lines of kde ...
01:59 < rxr> hm - too bad my iBo
01:59 < jsaw> oh, it's in kdenetwork
02:00 < rxr> ok has no USB 2.0 - scanning 300dpi 8bit*3channels color documents in duplex mode takes quite some time ...
02:01 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4926 /trunk/package/network/lisa/: * lisa is integrated into kdenetwork package
02:02 < jsaw> ups, should have added, that it got deleted... *meep*
02:02 < mnemoc> i hate kde just because of that
02:02 < rxr> mnemoc: ?
02:02 < rxr> btw. kde is really great ...
02:03 < mnemoc> kde is great
02:03 < mnemoc> but the package everything together
02:03 < jsaw> xfce are doing a great job in this respect.
02:03 < rxr> well - I mostly like it ... take a look at "all the many" gnome packages
02:03 < jsaw> many packages, but all with the same version number... in contrast to the gnome hell...
02:04 < mnemoc> kde -> gnome -> xfce
02:04 < rxr> I agree some stuff could be a bit factored out in the kde packages ...
02:04 < rxr> mnemoc: ?
02:04 < jsaw> his prefs i guess
02:04 < mnemoc> preferences
02:04 < jsaw> :)
02:04 < mnemoc> :)
02:05 < rxr> mnemoc: does this read kde is best or worst ? *g*
02:05 < mnemoc> rxr: worse just because that issue
02:05 < rxr> ok - and aside packaging - what are you pref. there?
02:06 < mnemoc> rxr: kde pacakges are amazing
02:06 < mnemoc> but i don't like to have different libs to do the same on my systems
02:07 < mnemoc> gtk --> xfce
02:07 < jsaw> rxr: did you already try e DR17 ?
02:07 < rxr> nope ;-)
02:09 < rxr> do you wanna try the update of all e* packages ?
02:10 < jsaw> would love to, but the deadline for my thesis is pressing hard...
02:10 < mnemoc> jsaw: do you you that fat-but-cool env?
02:10 < mnemoc> use*
02:10 < rxr> yeah - I understand - ...
02:11 < jsaw> actually I use gnome on my workstation and e16 on my laptop currently.
02:11 < mnemoc> jsaw: what will do you after you finish your thesis? :)
02:12 < jsaw> I somehow got used to gnome ... and I couldn't change my habit so far :)
02:12 < jsaw> mnemoc: continue. my boss wants to take me another 2 years to make a big impact publishing out of it (and me too of course)
02:13 < rxr> cool ;-)
02:13 < rxr> ok - just commited revision 160 of my Avision backend
02:13 < rxr> I get some tiny night snack - and then I decidce
02:14 < mnemoc> jsaw: great :)
02:14 < rxr> whether to crawl into bed or continue a bit ...
02:14 < jsaw> cool, yes, you name it. And that by pure coincidence.
02:14 < jsaw> I need to write up the story how I ended up here in this lab.
02:15 < jsaw> short form: a guy from america was looking for flat (i offered mine), but in the end didn't move out. he had to go back for a couple of weeks and couldn't find a flat here. I offered him to stay in my flat until he finds one. We became friends...
02:16 < jsaw> and finally he pushed me into neuroscience...
02:16 < mnemoc> oh
02:16 < mnemoc> i didnit knew that was an accident
02:19 < jsaw> oh yeah, and about of three years every night party... before I entered this lab. :))))
02:20 < jsaw> probably I'd be doing particle physics without :)
02:21 < mnemoc> neuroscience sounds much cooler than particules :)
02:21 < jsaw> yes it does. But don't tell anybody that I'm a neuroscientist, the *real* slim neurscientist will get *real* pissed *g*
02:22 < mnemoc> =)
02:22 < jsaw> hehe
02:31 < rxr> Linux: Red Hat, Novell To Package Xen
02:32 < jsaw> Xen?
02:32 < mnemoc> x86 emu
02:32 < mnemoc> like qemu
02:32 < jsaw> ah, right.
02:46 < rxr> does anyone have -lGLU handy?
02:46 < rxr> does this one look cool:
02:46 < rxr> http://legolas.homelinux.org/~kent/electropaint/
02:46 < rxr> ?
02:47 < mnemoc> *click*
02:48 < rxr> there is no screenshot ...
02:50 < mnemoc> nope :\
03:03 < rxr> shit - my backend has a huge memory leak ...
03:03 < rxr> again a perfect example how many people peer review those code ...
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03:25 < rxr> ok - enough SANE/Avision for today ...
03:25 * rxr in bed ...
03:25 < rxr> late enough anyway ...
03:25 < rxr> have fun all - cu hopefully in the morning (when I manage to awake in time)
03:25 < mnemoc> cu rene
03:26 < rxr> n8 mnemoc - and much luck for your examination
03:27 < mnemoc> i need it
03:31 < jsaw> sleep well rxr
03:35 -!- mtr_ [~michael@Ha36f.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2
03:35 < jsaw> hi mtr_
03:41 -!- mtr [~michael@H8442.h.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:07 < jsaw> <- leaving. Good luck mnemoc. cu!
04:08 < mnemoc> thanks jsaw
04:19 < nullslack> == 11:27:27 =[3]=> Building base/autoconf [2.59 2.1.0-beta].
04:20 < nullslack> !> configure: error: perl is not found
04:20 < nullslack> == 12/03/04 11:27:51 =[3]=> Aborted building package autoconf.
04:20 < nullslack> ;(
04:21 < mnemoc> sorry, autoconf needs perl
04:21 < mnemoc> even linux kernel needs perl :(
04:22 < nullslack> !> checking for gm4... no
04:22 < nullslack> !> checking for gnum4... no
04:22 < nullslack> !> checking for m4... /usr/bin/m4
05:17 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.245.65.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
05:17 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | the system development environment | http://www.exactcode.de/t2 | C++ people around, too
05:17 -!- Topic set by rxr [] [Mon Nov 29 02:10:27 2004]
05:17 [Users #t2]
05:17 [ _martin_] [ daja77] [ mtr_ ] [ praenti_] [ sparc-kly]
05:17 [ _Ragnar_] [ jsaw ] [ nullslack] [ rxr ] [ valentin ]
05:17 [ CIA-9 ] [ mnemoc] [ nzg ] [ rxr_ ]
05:17 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
05:17 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
05:17 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
05:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 16 secs
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09:31 -!- CorLis [~wehrlin@p508C222B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
09:31 < CorLis> moin
10:06 < rxr_> moin
10:06 -!- You're now known as rxr
10:06 < rxr> hi CorLis
10:43 < CIA-9> rene * r4927 /trunk/package/gnome2/ (glib/glib.desc gtk+/gtk+.desc): * updated glib (2.4.7 -> 2.4.8) and gtk+ (2.4.13 -> 2.4.14)
10:45 < CorLis> hrmpf
10:45 < rxr> yes?
10:46 < CorLis> always when i compile, there are these updates :P
10:48 < rxr> there are always updates - just continue your build untouched
10:49 < rxr> total size of t2 sources on the mirror is 2899230192
10:50 * rxr showering and breakfast
11:18 < daja77> .oO (if you want to exclude from information, it is a bad idea to hilight me ...)
11:18 < jsaw> re
11:18 < jsaw> hi daja77
11:18 < jsaw> ?
11:20 < daja77> exclude me
11:20 < daja77> dunno rene thinks that I moght "steal" code
11:21 < jsaw> when was that?
11:22 < daja77> about 1:30
11:24 < jsaw> you don't take this comment that too serious, do you?
11:24 < jsaw> s/that//
11:24 < daja77> no
11:26 < daja77> it is gpl so what :)
11:28 < jsaw> ...
11:32 < daja77> ;)
11:35 < jsaw> Microsoft Sues Spammers
11:35 < jsaw> I hate this kind of news.
11:36 < jsaw> But hey, money makes the world go round, or did I misunderstand something in my physics class
11:45 < rxr> re
11:45 < jsaw> hi rxr!
11:45 < jsaw> dietlibc failed in stage 1... :(
11:45 < rxr> hi jsaw
11:45 < rxr> hm:-(
11:46 < rxr> a install target fully built here ..
11:46 * rxr @ uni - cu
11:46 < rxr> oh - hi daja77
11:46 * rxr away
11:46 < daja77> hi rxr
11:46 < daja77> cu :)
11:46 < jsaw> rxr, oh no, stage 3:
11:46 < jsaw> i386/PIC.h: Assembler messages:
11:46 < jsaw> i386/PIC.h:8: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character is `1'
11:47 < jsaw> [snip]
11:47 < jsaw> ...checking later...
11:47 < jsaw> just if you have an immediate idea ;)
12:19 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4928 /trunk/package/office/ooo/ (distro.patch ooo.conf ooo.desc use-gcc-not-gcc33.patch):
12:19 < CIA-9> NOTE: still not building :(
12:19 < CIA-9> * update build system from ximian (1.3.6 -> 1.3.7)
12:19 < CIA-9> * remove a few variables from env, so that build won't break with
12:19 < CIA-9> "xargs: environment is too large for exec"
12:19 < CIA-9> * use patches from Gentoo for gcc34 (this breaks due to a
12:19 < CIA-9> malformed patch, but I can't see why it should be malformed...)
12:20 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4929 /trunk/package/religion/sword/ (sword.conf sword.desc): * move config options into its own conf file
12:21 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4930 /trunk/package/religion/biblestudy/ ( biblestudy.desc): * add package biblestudy 1.0
12:23 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4931 /trunk/source/: * ignore a few files in the source/ directory
12:24 < daja77> jsaw: you got ooo working with gcc-3.4.2?
12:24 < jsaw> no, not yet :(
12:24 < daja77> oh i c
12:24 < daja77> thought of an oo package too
12:25 < jsaw> I commit stuff whenever I get one step further, hoping somebody else might have a look...
12:25 < daja77> if you agree we might share that effort
12:25 < jsaw> np
12:28 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4932 /trunk/package/office/ooo/ (ooo.conf ooo.desc): * ooo: move the definition of oootag from .conf to .desc
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12:54 < jsaw> <- lecture. cu later.
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13:17 < CorLis_> is it safe to stop build-scripts to restart it later?
13:24 < CorLis_> ohoh
13:24 < CorLis_> does t2 disable the /proc mount?
13:25 < CorLis_> df: `proc': No such file or directory
14:31 < jsaw> CorLis_: shouldn't be a problem to stop the build-script. Only point where I had problems once in a while if I stop it during the "Re-running configuration" phase.
15:05 -!- mtr [~michael@Ha36f.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2
15:05 < mtr> moin
15:42 -!- madtux [~mike@200.91.101.97] has joined #t2
15:42 < madtux> hello.
16:41 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has joined #t2
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16:52 < rxr> moin
16:52 < madtux> hello.
16:52 < madtux> :)
16:52 < rxr> hi madtux
16:52 < rxr> CorLis_: t2 should not do s.th. to /proc
16:53 < rxr> jsaw: yes - the Config is problematic - since it does destructive editing of the config files - when interrupted the file might be incomplete or empty at all
17:12 < madtux> rxr: btw i built bootdisk target flawless last night on 4 different boxes
17:12 < madtux> rxr: _WITH_ my syslinux update in :)
17:13 < CorLis_> rxr: hrm. but it only happens on boxes where i run t2 scripts...
17:13 < CorLis_> heya madtux
17:13 < madtux> so maybe you would like to consider applying those pending syslinux updates ? :)
17:13 < madtux> good day CorLis_
17:13 -!- CorLis_ is now known as CorLis
17:15 < rxr> madtux: yep
17:15 < rxr> thanks for the report
17:15 < madtux> np.
17:16 < madtux> rxr: oh and i just sent the router patch i forgot to attach sory about that.. well iguess its better than a 9mb attachment :)
17:16 < madtux> rxr: question do preffer patches inline or attached?
17:18 < rxr> I do not care -- I'm not a patch monkey like linus or clifford ...
17:18 < madtux> *g*
17:18 < madtux> .oO( It's great to work with rxr )
17:24 < rxr> well - as long as it is a patch and applies and does the right thing (tm) - why should I care if it is -p0 or -p1 or inlined or not ...
17:25 < madtux> thats an excellent point
17:33 < CIA-9> rene * r4933 /trunk/target/router/ (build.sh router.txt):
17:33 < CIA-9> Miguel Bolanos :
17:33 < CIA-9> * fixed a typo on the syslinux_ver definition on build.sh
17:33 < CIA-9> * renamed the Router target to T2 Ruter Target
17:34 < madtux> urrgs
17:34 < madtux> Ruter
17:34 < rxr> ;-)
17:34 < madtux> *g*
17:34 < madtux> ah well its ok the the tree where it really matters :)
17:34 < madtux> trunk even
17:35 < madtux> rxr: i'll stabilize it between today and tomorrow i guess
17:35 < madtux> its not really that much work
17:36 < CIA-9> rene * r4934 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): * updated several syslinux downloads (2.11)
17:37 < madtux> hey! :)
17:37 < madtux> great.. now i got no pending patches i guess
17:37 < rxr> ouhps - forgot to paste your address over this one - sorry
17:38 < madtux> rxr: i'm not interested in fame.. just in making a good work
17:38 < madtux> :)
17:39 < rxr> I like good work and fame ;-)
17:39 < madtux> haha
17:39 < madtux> fame comes after the good work
17:40 < rxr> I take a look if I can locate my old automated patch apply script from rock-1.7 times ... - I had it on my old laptop which's HD is in my U5 these days - and I think I had it on my iBook too (since I rsynced my whole fat home -
17:41 < rxr> but I destroyed all my data on the iBook due to the shit damn fscking Mac OSX 10.3 formated my Linux partitions with UFS during re-install ...
17:41 < rxr> damn crappy commercial OSs ...
17:41 < rxr> I did not asked for tha t...
17:41 < madtux> :)
17:41 < madtux> let it all out come on
17:41 < madtux> :)
17:41 < rxr> yeah - it is still on my Athlon - cool ;-)
17:42 < rxr> yeah - especially the installer of osx sucks majorly ...
17:42 < rxr> and it is dog slow - especially running from CD ... or DVD ...
17:43 < madtux> even on g5 ?
17:43 < rxr> oh - there is still rock-linux including rock-linux.sm in that home *lol*
17:43 < madtux> or its not really dependent on the box
17:43 < madtux> rl.sm ?
17:43 < rxr> no idea - but it is slow due to continously accessing the CD ...
17:43 < rxr> submaster junk
17:43 < madtux> oh :P
17:43 < rxr> be happy if you never had to use it ...
17:43 < madtux> your beloved sm
17:44 < madtux> *g*
17:44 < rxr> yeah - do you love it?
17:44 < madtux> 1 lifetime wouldn't be enough to express the strong feelings i have for sm :)
17:45 < madtux> _PLEASE_ never make use something like that on t2 :)
17:46 < madtux> i still can't understand how they managed to get SMP to like it
17:46 < rxr> hehe
17:47 < rxr> no - I do not plan to setup up a work preventing barrier for t2 ...
17:51 < madtux> good
17:51 < madtux> :)
18:01 < madtux> rxr: how often do u run reference builds?
18:02 < rxr> I did not yet run a ref build - just desktop ones ...
18:02 < madtux> oh..
18:02 < madtux> it might good to run one just update caches and so
18:03 < madtux> just to*
18:04 < rxr> no
18:04 < rxr> we ant to get rid of the cache files
18:04 < rxr> they change too often
18:05 < rxr> we want to split most stuff into a .dep files and with one line per dep
18:05 < madtux> i like that :)
18:06 < rxr> this way they to not alter that often and are more stable ..
18:06 < rxr> adn the .cache will only old the BUILD-TIME and maybe size or so ..
18:06 < rxr> but also in some relative value like the BSU or what it was used in LFS ...
18:07 < rxr> so that builds on other hardware produce nearly indentically values and it is possible to estimate the package build time for end-user emerges ...
18:08 < rxr> and then we'll additionally round it to some exponential value so that slightly build time changes do not render the .cache file out of date ...
18:08 < rxr> aside from new user features this will also result in more stable .cache files and a regression tester can run the wohle time without resulting in commit floods ...
18:09 < madtux> :)
18:10 < rxr> and until that time we should only update .cache files when the deps are not correct anymore ..
18:10 < rxr> the .cache files should be quite up-to-date regarding dependencies
18:10 -!- af [~af@ip-148-227.sn1.eutelia.it] has joined #t2
18:11 < madtux> this sounds very good
18:11 < madtux> ciao af
18:11 < madtux> :)
18:11 < af> hi :)
18:11 < rxr> and for example bulid error logs shoudl never be injected into the .cache files
18:11 < rxr> welcome af ;-)
18:11 < af> thanks rxr
18:15 < af> I am trying to build a system with the t2 stuff
18:15 < af> it sounds a nice idea
18:16 < madtux> af: is your build already started? :)
18:17 < af> just now
18:18 < af> I am trying with a minimal i86 router, first
18:18 < af> in which language is written t2?
18:18 < af> I mean the build env
18:18 < af> I am seeing this: build system rewrite (many parts in C++)
18:18 < rxr> bash - with sed and awk injections - as usual in shell scripts ...
18:19 < af> I see, why C++ then?
18:22 < rxr> to improve and speed up the build system and so on ...
18:22 < af> mhhh
18:23 < madtux> af: u are trying the Router target?!
18:23 < af> yeah.
18:23 < af> it is going
18:24 < madtux> af: errr.. man i would suggest to try a desktop target with a pkgselection.. ur router build will brake on stage 3
18:24 < madtux> af: i'm currently fixing it.
18:24 < af> oh.
18:25 < af> what about a live cd?
18:25 < madtux> rxr: whats the status on livecd?
18:25 < rxr> no idea
18:25 < madtux> ouch.
18:26 < madtux> af: you can let your current build move on but when it brakes u might need to stand by for my fixes
18:26 < madtux> af: i intend to have it stable and functional in 1 no longer than 2 days
18:27 < af> ok.
18:27 < madtux> would this be a problem for you?
18:27 < af> I can wait,, then no hurry at all
18:27 < af> just looking at the stuff
18:27 < madtux> good :)
18:27 < madtux> just let the build go on for now :)
18:28 < madtux> .oO( this is getting addictive .. again )
18:28 < af> I would prefer python or ruby over C++
18:29 < af> but, you know, I don't like C++
18:29 < madtux> u are gentoo user aren't u ?
18:29 < af> nope, I was a debian user, now looking for something better
18:29 < af> debian since 1997
18:29 < madtux> you gave me the gentoo idea from the python comment
18:29 < af> so, I have used it for many years
18:29 < madtux> nice.
18:30 < af> no, ususally I write in C
18:30 < madtux> af: my first distro was slack back in 96 - 97
18:30 < af> but I have done something in python, I like it
18:30 < af> oh sure in that years slack was mastering
18:30 < af> I was slack too :)
18:30 < af> 1995
18:31 < madtux> when slack was fun? :)
18:31 < af> my very first linux distro
18:31 < af> well, I had to get a kernel patch for my poos scsi adaptec :)
18:31 < af> poor, even
18:32 < af> ok, time for a shower
18:32 < af> see ya later, guys
18:32 < madtux> cya af enjoy the shower
18:58 < mnemoc> moin!
19:07 < madtux> wb mnemoc.
19:09 < CorLis> okeys, nice weekend
19:10 -!- CorLis [~wehrlin@p508C2891.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["emerge drivehome"]
19:12 < mnemoc> hi madtux!
19:12 < madtux> yeah hi.
19:16 < rxr> hi mnemoc
19:20 < mnemoc> hi rxr
19:22 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has joined #t2
19:23 < madtux> hello nullslack
19:24 < nullslack> hello madtux
19:24 < nullslack> any updates with the autoconf error?
19:25 < madtux> my autoconf error on the router target?
19:27 < nullslack> my autoconf error on the generic target...it says that it needed perl to build autoconf
19:28 < rxr> hm - interesting ...
19:28 < rxr> was perl not built?
19:29 < mnemoc> autocrap needs perl
19:30 < madtux> DO'H!
19:30 < madtux> nullslack: you are using _minimal_ pkg selection aren't you?
19:30 < madtux> not minimal+xorg but just minimal
19:31 < madtux> rxr: i know the error thats what made me check on the pkg sel for minimal..
19:31 < madtux> i didn't look at it previously someone called mnemoc told me it was fixed.
19:32 < madtux> anyways i'm fixing it.
19:32 < nullslack> rxr, perl is not built
19:32 < madtux> brb i need some food.
19:32 < nullslack> madtux, yep, i'm using minimal template only
19:32 < madtux> nullslack: i suggest minimal+xorg minimal is broken atm
19:32 < mnemoc> madtux: i use my own minimal, rene told me he has updated pkgsel of it :)
19:33 < mnemoc> nullslack: ./scripts/Create-ErrList -cfg foo
19:34 < nullslack> [3] base/autoconf
19:34 < nullslack> 381 builds total, 63 completed fine, 1 with errors.
19:34 < mnemoc> uhm
19:34 < mnemoc> grep -e '^X .* perl' config/foo/packages
19:35 < nullslack> oh...not enabled
19:37 < mnemoc> enable pkgsel in your config and X perl please
19:37 < rxr> nullslack: what are you building? vanilla unmodified generic target?
19:38 < nullslack> rxr, generic target with minimal template excluding linux24 package only
19:38 < nullslack> mnemoc, then Build-Target again or Clean -full
19:38 < mnemoc> Config -cfg foo -oldconfig
19:38 < mnemoc> Download
19:39 < mnemoc> Build-Target
19:40 < nullslack> what does Config -cfg foo -oldconfig actually do?
19:41 < mnemoc> config without the UI
19:41 < mnemoc> no questions just updates
19:43 < rxr> madtux: do you right now work on a minimal update? Or should I copy the minimal+xorg and fix it up ?
19:43 < nullslack> ok
19:45 < madtux> rxr: i'm currently fighting with linux24 on my ultra5 .. if you have a chance then please go ahead
19:46 < rxr> ok - I do it
19:46 < rxr> do you build t2 on the U5?
19:47 < madtux> i'm atm :)
19:47 < mnemoc> rxr: what do you think about updatingh 2.6 to .10-rc?
19:47 < madtux> rxr: i still would like to get that sparc iso u promissed :)
19:48 < mnemoc> :D
19:48 < nullslack> can i request the minimal to be really "minimal" just the needed packages for it to boot and be the base for building anything you want ;)
19:48 < mnemoc> it's harder to release an iso with a damn broken kernel :)
19:48 < mnemoc> nullslack: sure you can request :)
19:49 < madtux> no nullslack thats actually the idea
19:49 < madtux> i certainly like the idea using _finals_ rather than pre's
19:49 < nullslack> no other utils like hddtemp, lm_sensors...it should be optional for the builder ;)
19:51 < mnemoc> nullslack: don't you wantot learn to do a targeT? :) you can take package selection from mnemosyne's plugins to have your minimal
19:51 < nullslack> just something quick to build and be able to boot from it then continue the development from there ;)
19:51 < rxr> nullslack: I guess no bind then?
19:51 < nullslack> mnemoc, i want to! but i really don't know where to start
19:52 < rxr> for some strange reason the current minimal includes bind ... :-(
19:52 < nullslack> rxr, yes...optional for the builder also
19:53 < rxr> mnemoc: do you think I should run a "grep CORE"++ over a rock tree and save the package selection into crystal.in?
19:53 < nullslack> because some people prefer djbdns over bind. that's also the same with MTAs
19:54 < madtux> a minimal system doesn not need either bind or djdns
19:54 < madtux> neither mta
19:54 < rxr> yeah - sure - I also do not think it should be in a minimal ..
19:54 < rxr> yep
19:54 < madtux> and rock's crystal sucks.
19:55 < madtux> it too limited for a "general porpuse" target
19:55 < rxr> sure it sucks ... - this is why I'm joking about it as package preselection ..
19:55 < rxr> I have no idea how the manage to polute their build kit more and more with such stuff ...
19:55 < rxr> yet another FLAG just to define a minimal desktop ...
19:55 < madtux> ack
19:56 < madtux> we should think more of specialized targets
19:56 < rxr> I mean - it is a slightly lightweighted desktop - but not more - and I really do not get the sense of flagging qt kdelibs kdebase and k3b as "CORE" !?!?!
19:56 < madtux> meaning.. a whole desktop, a mailserver with antispam and antivirus, a fileserver
19:56 < madtux> that kind of stuff could be of much more use and interest for users
19:57 < rxr> and so much to cliffords (at al) our repository grouping rulez - when base not enought to define a CORE anyway ...
19:57 < madtux> rxr: full ack with your statement .. its senceless
19:57 < rxr> but I still think a package preselection rule for crystal would be a cool joke ... ,-)
19:58 < mnemoc> rxr: th did that and created a bootstrap and a crystal-emu target
19:58 < mnemoc> without pkgfork
19:59 < mnemoc> madtux: i want to include target/$target/pkgsel support
20:00 < rxr> I saw it in 2.0 ...
20:00 < mnemoc> s/^madtux: //
20:01 < madtux> mnemoc: i don't know if its the best way to do it
20:01 < mnemoc> to clean config.in
20:02 < nullslack> minimal should be the base for all the other targets, whether desktop, server, etc...
20:02 < madtux> clean config.in ?!
20:02 < daja77> it is limited to fit on one cd, but yes the concept is not thought to an end
20:03 < mnemoc> hi daja77
20:03 < madtux> good day "Mr. Daniel"
20:03 < madtux> :)
20:03 < daja77> lol
20:03 < rxr> hi daja77
20:04 < daja77> damn haven't answered that guy, still not sure what the heck he is actually doin
20:04 < daja77> hi rxr
20:04 < nullslack> == 03:15:34 =[3]=> Building perl/perl [5.8.3 2.1.0-beta].
20:04 < madtux> nullslack: not necesarily, even on minimal we should be able to enable special features.. meaning build it using uclib or ditlibc.. or enable selinux / grsecurity
20:04 < daja77> .oO (i should do more ranmting on crystal on ml)
20:04 < nullslack> hmm..perl is only built in stage 3?
20:04 < mnemoc> nullslack: outch
20:05 < madtux> daja77: maybe u can ask him... a simple "WTF are u talking about" should be enough :)
20:05 < nullslack> madtux, yes...but it should be disabled by default
20:05 < madtux> nullslack: yeah.. but what about router? i really like the way router target works.
20:06 < nullslack> mnemoc, should i abort it?
20:06 < mnemoc> nullslack: nope
20:06 < madtux> nullslack: let the build go on :)
20:06 < mnemoc> nullslack: keep walking :)
20:07 < madtux> nullslack: as i said yesterday let it go on.. if it makes you feel frustrated at some point then feel free to kick mnemoc .. it will make u feel good, ask daja77 he is an expert on that
20:07 < madtux> :)
20:07 < nullslack> ;) i'm enjoying it!!!
20:08 < madtux> nullslack: if you get bored u can read my blog
20:08 < madtux> http://mike.hsol.net
20:08 < madtux> i've been actually talking about t2 over there lately
20:08 < madtux> :)
20:08 < madtux> == 13:13:21 =[1]=> Building develop/distcc [2.18 2.1.0-beta].
20:08 < madtux> 0_o
20:08 < rxr> daja77: "20:04 < daja77> .oO (i should do more ranmting on crystal on ml)
20:08 < rxr> "
20:09 < mnemoc> and my shop :\
20:09 < rxr> what did you mean?
20:09 < madtux> i didn't know we had distcc in
20:09 < nullslack> madtux, router can be built using minimal...just add the net packages
20:09 < madtux> nullslack: actually we need les than minimal in some stuff
20:09 < madtux> mnemoc: u have a shop?
20:10 < madtux> mnemoc: you saw keinek's pic?
20:10 < mnemoc> weee :)
20:10 * madtux checking if we have scratchbox in as well
20:11 < daja77> rxr: well i am running crystal atm, not that bad, but i can only build that limited set, i want an additional set which can be fetched over the net, to get additional stuff, so you have one cd for install which is quite fine, and install other stuff when needed
20:11 < daja77> and I am missing the second part atm
20:11 < madtux> no we don't have scratchbox
20:11 < madtux> i guess i'll add it
20:12 < madtux> distcc and scratchbox are essential tools for my work on commercial embedded systems
20:12 < mnemoc> :D
20:12 < madtux> i can tell its a nice suprise to see distcc already in
20:12 < madtux> :)
20:12 < nullslack> madtux, but if you stick to being "minimal" anything can be built using it as a base
20:12 < rxr> scratchbox ? it sucks majorly - what do you need that for?
20:12 < madtux> testing
20:13 < madtux> at nokia we have been using scratchbox for a while
20:13 < mnemoc> "at nokia we" uhm
20:13 < madtux> do'h
20:13 * madtux on the phone
20:15 < rxr> madtux: nokia is sponsoring it ...
20:15 < rxr> I also had some crappy boy from nokia at the t2 booth of linux world expo an
20:15 < rxr> wanting to sell the stuff to me ...
20:15 < CIA-9> rene * r4935 /trunk/misc/pkgsel/ (minimal+xorg.in minimal.in):
20:15 < CIA-9> * converted the minimal+xorg templates to use s
20:15 < CIA-9> * copied the minimal+xorg to minimal and removed the X packages (way
20:15 < CIA-9> more minimal now) minimal has 82 active packages and minimal+xorg 85
20:18 < rxr> ohm - I forgot I did the minimal-desktop:
20:18 < rxr> Rene Rebe:
20:18 < rxr> * added a minimal-desktop package preselection template
20:18 < rxr> (used for the Linux Intern CD in the kiosks next month)
20:18 < rxr> one of the few times ROCK was on a silver CD ;-)
20:19 < madtux> :)
20:20 < madtux> rxr: yes it is.
20:20 < madtux> rxr: what kind of stuff?
20:20 < rxr> scratchbox ;-)
20:20 < madtux> *LOL*
20:20 < madtux> rxr: i'd like to know what u told him
20:21 < madtux> rxr: bash 3 is default in t2 right?
20:22 * madtux will buy a laptop for the first time - Suggestions?
20:25 < rxr> we only have bash 3.0, yes ...
20:25 < rxr> I do not need outdated crap on my boxes ... I also do not run linux 1.x somewhere ...
20:25 * madtux just read the mails about bash3 on the rlml
20:25 < madtux> :)
20:26 < rxr> maybe you could propose to add linux 2.2 and 2.0 as well as the last 1.x series to the pkgfork stuff of the rock lnu
20:26 < rxr> linux package ...
20:26 < madtux> talking about updates... its to test some
20:26 < rxr> madtux: I have posted a list of many possible updates ...
20:26 < madtux> _I_ could propose .. yeah right :)
20:27 < madtux> madtux: i have not seen such
20:27 < madtux> where is it at?
20:28 < rxr> where is what?
20:28 < rxr> (sorry /me reading ...)
20:29 < madtux> rxr: the list.
20:29 < rxr> ah - yes - that I was about to post here ...
20:29 < rxr> thats for the hint
20:29 < madtux> :)
20:31 < mnemoc> daja77 proposed bash3.0
20:32 < nullslack> pretty nice defaults in minimal+xorg ;)
20:33 < rxr> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.t2.devel/87
20:33 * nullslack is trying to decide whether to abort minimal...and build minimal+xorg instead ;)
20:34 < mnemoc> rxr: ?
20:36 < madtux> t2-devel?!
20:36 < madtux> is there another list besides t2@ec.de ?
20:36 < mnemoc> that's t2-devel
20:37 < madtux> it does exist?!
20:37 < madtux> anything else i should be subscribed to?
20:37 < mnemoc> there are two
20:37 < madtux> rxr syslinux-2.08 <- ? i upgraded us to 2.11
20:37 < mnemoc> t2 and t2-svn
20:38 < madtux> what is t2-svn about?
20:38 < mnemoc> commits
20:38 < madtux> so there is no t2-devel list right?
20:38 < mnemoc> automate
20:38 < mnemoc> d
20:38 < madtux> i do not care for the t2-svn list :)
20:38 < mnemoc> madtux: t2@ec.de is the devel list
20:38 < madtux> great
20:38 < madtux> i always though so.. but u confused me for a moment
20:39 < madtux> == 12/03/04 13:43:42 =[1]=> Finished building package silo.
20:40 < mnemoc> =)
20:40 < mnemoc> what target?
20:40 < madtux> dekstop
20:40 < madtux> desktop
20:42 < madtux> rxr: btw thx for the help with minimal
20:44 < daja77> .oO (minimal)
20:44 < rxr> mom
20:45 < madtux> daja77: minimal pkg sel
20:45 < madtux> dad
20:45 < madtux> :)
20:45 < daja77> which is an oxymoron somehow
20:45 < madtux> oxymoron ?
20:46 < mnemoc> contradictory
20:46 < daja77> yeah i tzhink a real minmal is kernel + bash
20:46 < mnemoc> i liked 'base' more than minimal
20:47 < madtux> daja77: we need some other stuff.. it should be called basic actually meaning it has the very basic stuff to get started and build your own custom rock/t2 whatever
20:47 < daja77> for rock we have it
20:48 < mnemoc> bootstrap?
20:48 < daja77> build-bootstrap iirc
20:48 < madtux> well congratz rocklinux
20:48 < madtux> :)
20:48 < madtux> i think i will play some more with minimal
20:52 < nullslack> way to go madtux!!!
20:55 < nullslack> package selection maybe template based...like "base" target and router template or desktop template or server template or development template ;)
20:58 < rxr> re
20:59 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.47] has joined #t2
20:59 < rxr> daja77: you have problems .... - a minimal is a OpenFirmware prompt where you enter Froth - or what ...
20:59 < madtux> rxr: on that possible update list.. aboot-0.9pre1 is not newer than 0.9b :)
21:00 < mnemoc_> madtux: on mnemosyne i have pkgsel bundled per feature
21:00 < madtux> mnemoc_: i know i'm building mnemosyne
21:00 < daja77> rxr: hehe, well minimal linux would be like that
21:00 < mnemoc_> i have to optimize plugin selection, it's damn slow
21:00 < mnemoc_> that's why i have not continued migrating it
21:01 < daja77> it is jaust when you say minimal, everybody will find "bloat" in it
21:01 < mnemoc_> i want to add selectable plugins
21:01 < madtux> don't give me cheap excuses
21:01 < rxr> madtux: thre is a t2-svn list ...
21:01 < rxr> t2 is the devel list - beside it stuff like t2-user and so on will be added on need ...
21:02 < madtux> rxr: yeah mnemoc_ told me.. but it scares the $foo out of me to think that it will be like been subscribed to rock-sm
21:02 < madtux> rxr: well t2 is low traffic yet
21:02 < madtux> so devs and users can coexist there
21:02 < madtux> :)
21:03 < mnemoc_> =)
21:03 < rxr> t2-svn is mid-level - not the sm noise - jus the commits as you see them here ...
21:03 < rxr> (by CIA)
21:03 < madtux> mmm... i can handle that
21:03 < madtux> iw ill subscribe
21:04 < madtux> daja77: btw i hope you didn't take my comment as a personal thing.. you are a good friend of mine and you know.. but as sometimes can happen with friends, we differ in opinions this time
21:06 < nullslack> == 04:17:22 =[5]=> Building base/00-dirtree [0000 2.1.0-beta].
21:06 < madtux> wee! :)
21:06 < nullslack> whoaa!!! things are getting pretty fast ey!!!
21:06 < nullslack> ;)
21:06 < daja77> madtux: which comment you mean
21:06 < madtux> bootstrap one
21:07 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:07 -!- mnemoc_ is now known as mnemoc
21:07 < daja77> *shrug* i don't even mind if you "steal" and modify it
21:07 < madtux> :P
21:07 < madtux> daja77: good :)
21:07 < madtux> have a coockie
21:07 < madtux> cookie*
21:07 < daja77> ;)
21:12 < rxr> daja77: I see no bootstrap target or package preselection in ROCK ...
21:14 < mnemoc> rxr: 2.0
21:15 < rxr> so 2.0 has more features then trunk=
21:15 < rxr> ? evne
21:16 < rxr> even - damn
21:16 < madtux> interesting
21:16 < daja77> hm should be moved to 2.1
21:16 < daja77> *sigh* perhaps i should resign from both project (k. havent signed in here)
21:17 < rxr> daja77: ?
21:17 < rxr> ?!? the bootstap list is hevily bloated ....
21:17 < daja77> haha!
21:18 < rxr> why "haha" ?
21:18 < daja77> that's what i expected about minimal stuff, as i explained before
21:18 < daja77> and it doesn't matter it fits on one cd
21:19 < rxr> build-bootstrap.in is named "build-bootstrap.in" nothing minimal in it ...
21:19 < daja77> yes
21:19 < rxr> and it looks like a blown up minimal - not like a "bootstrap only and not more" ...
21:21 < daja77> it is always like that, some consider sth as bloat waht others need
21:22 < mnemoc> with minimal madtux wanted a simple but fully operative machine
21:22 < mnemoc> i think the name was wrong
21:23 < nullslack> maybe it should be called "base" instead of "minimal"
21:23 < nullslack> as in "base system"
21:24 < mnemoc> i liked 'base' more than minimal <--- one hour ago :p
21:24 < rxr> daja77: you do not need raid and lvm stuff in a bootsrap ...
21:24 < rxr> as well as text html browsers ...
21:24 < nullslack> mnemoc, oh ;)
21:25 < rxr> mnemoc: I read this - that is why I commneted in build-bootsrap is no minimal
21:25 < daja77> rxr: to answer that, well t2 is goin to be a distro rather than a buoildkit and rock is goin too far and slow, i have not much time for development,. so i'd need sth that just works, unfortunately there is nothing out there what i like)
21:26 < mnemoc> i hope t2-2.1 see the light soon
21:26 * nullslack is having a gut feeling his request will soon be fulfilled harharhar
21:26 < mnemoc> :)
21:27 < madtux> mnemoc: well i hope so too... and rather just hoping i have jumped in to contribute om accomplishing it
21:27 < madtux> nullslack: :)
21:27 < mnemoc> nullslack: i teach you to do your own target and your write a howto, deal?
21:28 < nullslack> mnemoc, DEAL! DEAL! DEAL!
21:28 < madtux> nullslack: charming thing about opensource projects and specially one like this.. if you like minimal still has too much stuff for you you can make ur own pkg sel template
21:28 < nullslack> ;)
21:28 < madtux> mnemoc: he start in 95 with all this so i could asume you are not dealing with a newbie
21:29 < nullslack> madtux, what do u mean?
21:29 < mnemoc> madtux: i don't want to teach a newbie :)
21:29 < mnemoc> i'll not teach linux, i'll teach him how to do his own target :)
21:30 < madtux> nullslack: well just stating that it won't be hard to teach u
21:30 < madtux> :)
21:30 < CIA-9> rene * r4936 /trunk/package/audio/alsa-utils/alsa.init:
21:30 < CIA-9> * improved alsa.init to use some reasonable defaults if no state
21:30 < CIA-9> file is present
21:30 < rxr> daja77: I have no idea what makes you think t2 will be a distribution ...
21:30 < mnemoc> nullslack: query? now or later?
21:30 < nullslack> why do i feel that the "smile" has some meaning
21:30 < madtux> mnemoc: teach us
21:30 < nullslack> ;)
21:31 * mnemoc kicks madtux
21:31 < madtux> mnemoc: i want to learn too
21:31 < madtux> ouch!!!!!!!
21:31 < mnemoc> you rocked two years before me
21:31 < mnemoc> before i*
21:32 < nullslack> mnemoc, ready!!!
21:32 < madtux> i did?!
21:32 < nullslack> ;)
21:32 < madtux> :P
21:33 < mnemoc> nullslack: you need target/$target/{preconfig.in,config.in,build.sh}
21:33 < mnemoc> preconfig.in registers the target
21:34 < mnemoc> config.in select packages, set config and ask stuff on Config
21:35 < mnemoc> and build.sh does the loop between packages and creates info for Create-ISO an the end
21:35 < mnemoc> those are the minimal files
21:35 < rxr> btw, I just started a desktop build to see if my toolchain rework does scale for a full build (tested bootdisk only so far) and generic errors pasted here scare me ...
21:35 < rxr> mnemoc: ack - I add this to the handbook ...
21:35 < rxr> now ;-)
21:35 < mnemoc> uhm
21:36 < mnemoc> :)
21:36 < mnemoc> nullslack: questions?
21:36 < nullslack> wait..lemme look at that dir
21:37 < mnemoc> it's bash so you hack as you want in there :)
21:42 < mnemoc> rxr: why is mike posting patches to the list? that remember me old rock times
21:43 < madtux> mnemoc: because i have not earned rw on svn yet..
21:43 < madtux> mnemoc: and honestly i have no problem sending mails
21:44 < madtux> i hated SM on rock not the mails with patches
21:45 < daja77> yeah but you don't need write access with that
21:45 < mnemoc> hehe
21:45 * daja77 shuts up
21:45 * mnemoc wonders about mailing with svk
21:45 < madtux> daja77: you don't want to discuss with me about SM :)
21:46 < daja77> not here, not now
21:46 < rxr> why? Submaster is great ....
21:46 < madtux> that wasn't a question.
21:46 < madtux> :)
21:46 < daja77> the idea is ok, the implementation sucks
21:47 < mnemoc> it's a proof of concept, isn't it?
21:47 < rxr> how do I get a backslash in tex?
21:48 < rxr> \backslash does only work in math mode ...
21:48 < rxr> and \\ is obviously not an escaped backslash ...
21:48 < rxr> idea anyone?
21:48 < daja77> "\
21:50 < rxr> undefined control sequence ?
21:50 < nullslack> mnemoc, i'll look at those files first...then bombard you with questions afterwards ;)
21:50 < madtux> rxr: i have interesting questiong for you.. are we going to keep the [M] flags for the packages as they are or how do u have in mind to control this?
21:51 < mnemoc> nullslack: ok :)
21:51 < rxr> mnemoc: dontrol what ?
21:51 < rxr> control even
21:51 < daja77> hm " is for excaping too
21:52 < madtux> rxr: was that really for mnemoc ?
21:53 < rxr> ah - no madtux what shoul
21:53 < rxr> .oO
21:53 < rxr> what do you think I might control ?
21:54 < madtux> ok perhaps control is not the right word, let me redo my question, are you willing to keep the package maintainers list from the rock .desc files are we going to "define" new maintainers out of the t2 team to replace the [M] flag?
21:55 < mnemoc> what about setting them all to unmaintained, and who think he is _really_ maintaining something take it?
21:55 < mnemoc> unmaitainted = t2@exactcode.de
21:56 < rxr> madtux: no - we replace the ones with people in not at T2 with ours when we touch them
21:56 < rxr> well - unmaintain hundreds of them looks quite unprofessional ...
21:56 < rxr> consider releasing 2.1 with 400 unmaintained packages ...
21:56 < rxr> I could sed my name in or so ...
21:57 < madtux> maybe we would like to just put in... The T2 Core Team
21:57 < rxr> but I think we should just gradually migrate them as we touch them
21:57 < rxr> well - that would rebuild all packages on some of my automated boxes ...
21:58 < madtux> i just an idea
21:59 < rxr> (we should only checksum the relevant parts for the rebuild anyway ...)
21:59 < rxr> e.g. no T I M A L ...
21:59 < rxr> and no COPY ...
22:17 < mnemoc> rxr: rfc mailed
22:30 < madtux> mnemoc: so tell me what are the real advantages on this? :)
22:30 < mnemoc> easier to maintain
22:31 < madtux> ...
22:31 < madtux> come on u can do better than that..
22:31 < mnemoc> you can also use the same tools to validate custom pkgsels, templates and targets
22:31 < mnemoc> :)
22:31 < madtux> mm..
22:32 < madtux> let me apply ur patch and play
22:32 < mnemoc> imo it's a cleanup
22:32 < madtux> this will be a busy weekend
22:34 < mnemoc> this will be a weekend full of fun to you
22:34 < madtux> yeah..
22:35 < madtux> and it will be funny monday for rxr when i start sending patches out :)
22:35 < madtux> i won't be online again till mondya i think
22:35 < madtux> monday*
22:37 < mnemoc> why?
22:37 < mnemoc> i you patch alone we can't share work
22:38 < madtux> i'll go to the beach
22:38 < mnemoc> if*
22:38 < mnemoc> oh
22:38 < mnemoc> with becky?
22:38 < madtux> becky and her family
22:38 < mnemoc> and your mother?
22:38 < mnemoc> =)
22:38 < madtux> yeah
22:38 < madtux> its a family trip
22:38 < madtux> :)
22:39 < mnemoc> laptop isn't part of the family?
22:39 < madtux> laptop get in the car BEFORE anyone fromt he family
22:40 < mnemoc> =)
22:41 < madtux> mnemoc: u are invited if u want to come
22:42 < madtux> and i have not lost the hope to see rxr and daja77 come as well
22:42 < daja77> madtux: hm will you be there in berlin=?
22:44 < madtux> honestly i think i will go in "low seasson" tickets cost is VERY high right now, and with the new house and all i'm starting to consider cancelling the reservation
22:44 < madtux> if i go i have to pay on wednesday
22:48 < rxr> madtux: I'll most probably not be berlin around that date ...
22:48 < madtux> rxr: i know,
22:48 < rxr> madtux: new house? what have I missed
22:48 * madtux is married..
22:48 < madtux> just that.
22:49 < mnemoc> *silence*
22:49 < rxr> oh ! congratulations ;-)
22:49 < madtux> danke !
22:49 < madtux> rxr: feel free to come by anytime.. bring susan with u if u like :)
22:50 < rxr> yeah - thanks - I'm just very out of time - as usual ...
22:51 < rxr> but at some time I'm sure I find time to make a funny holiday over in CR ;-)
22:51 < madtux> you are telling _ME_ about been busy? :)
22:51 < madtux> good.
22:51 < mnemoc> hey madtux, you travel a lot more that us
22:52 < madtux> i do?!
22:52 < mnemoc> you do!
22:52 < madtux> well maybe but thats the cost of fame.
22:52 < madtux> i mean its just work
22:52 < madtux> :)
22:52 < madtux> i do have some rest for a day or some during a 2 week trip
22:52 < madtux> but the rest of the time there is hardly time to sleep
22:53 < rxr> http://dl.exactcode.de/t2-handbook/html/t2-handbook.html
22:54 < madtux> rxr: can i make a translation of the handbook?
22:54 < rxr> http://dl.exactcode.de/t2-handbook/html/t2-handbookch28.html
22:54 < rxr> sure - but better wait some more time until more content is in it ...
22:54 < madtux> u just let me know then :)
22:54 < rxr> it needs a lot more rock -> t2 transition and a lot more content ...
22:55 < jsaw> re
22:55 < madtux> jsaw: !
22:55 < jsaw> \textbackslash
22:55 < jsaw> hi madtux
22:55 < rxr> so lets better first do some work on t2 and get the english version further before we start translation forks that need to be kept in sync ...
22:55 < jsaw> hi rxr
22:55 < rxr> hi jsaw
22:55 < madtux> very well
22:55 < mnemoc> hi jsaw
22:55 < jsaw> hi mnemoc
22:58 < madtux> rxr: we need some PR stuff if i'm spected to give talks about T2 on the different congress i will be at next year
22:58 < _martin_> hi
22:58 < jsaw> hi _martin_
22:58 < _martin_> hi jsaw
22:58 < madtux> there is even a possibility that i give a talk at Linux World next year
22:59 < mnemoc> we need a release :)
22:59 -!- praenti_ [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:59 < rxr> http://exactcode.de/rene/t2-pr-poster.*
22:59 < madtux> though maddog needs to get back to me with much more information
22:59 < madtux> click
22:59 < rxr> http://exactcode.de/valentin/T2.handout/T2.handout.*
22:59 -!- praenti [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has joined #t2
23:00 < rxr> + various other tiny graphic and PR files in that two dirs ...
23:00 < rxr> at some point in some months we want those polished and sorted on the homepage ...
23:00 < madtux>
23:00 < madtux> hello praenti
23:03 < madtux> are amd, ibm, motorola, intel, arm and sun really sponsoring t2?
23:04 < mnemoc> =D
23:08 * rxr back to SANE/Avision work ...
23:09 < rxr> need to earn money ...
23:10 < mnemoc> money is good for health
23:10 < rxr> yep ;-)
23:11 < rxr> and enhancing my scanner driver not that bad either
23:18 < rxr> == 23:17:44 =[2]=> Building base/gcc [3.4.3 2.1.0-beta].
23:18 < rxr> 1012 builds total, 60 completed fine, 0 with errors.
23:47 -!- madtux [~mike@200.91.101.97] has quit ["see ya on monday folks!"]
23:50 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4937 /trunk/package/x11/fox/fox.desc: * update fox (1.3.19 -> 1.3.20)
23:50 < rxr> this reminds me on s.th.
23:50 < jsaw> ?
23:51 < rxr> I wanna patch the shutterbug think included to install to
23:51 < rxr> fox-shutterbug or so ...
23:51 < rxr> it is annoying that one can not complete shu to shutdown anymore ..
23:51 < rxr> isn't it ?
23:52 < rxr> btw, do you use fox for s.th. or did you updated it just for the fun of it ?
23:52 < jsaw> also calculator
23:53 < jsaw> because it failed building...
23:53 < rxr> adie - a text editor ...
23:54 < jsaw> Getaway
23:54 < rxr> ohm - start adie and click on about ...
23:54 < jsaw> not installed here
23:57 < rxr> maybe we want supply these to fox:
23:57 < rxr> --with-xft --with-xrandr --with-x
23:57 < rxr> cursor
23:58 < rxr> and enable --enable-release
23:58 < jsaw> checking for X11/extensions/Xrandr.h... yes
23:58 < jsaw> checking X11/Xcursor/Xcursor.h presence... yes
23:59 < rxr> jsaw: what do you think about just switching the "example apps" off?
23:59 < rxr> I mean do we want the strange screenshot tool, and this yet another editor thing ?
--- Log closed Sat Dec 04 00:00:18 2004