--- Log opened Wed Sep 14 00:00:31 2005
00:05 < valentin> yes, but our C tag has two levels
00:06 < valentin> first is base and extra
00:06 < valentin> imo we should ignore that one, but..
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00:16 < CIA-9> sebastian * r11849 /trunk/package/graphic/aqsis/aqsis.conf: * workaround for gcc4
00:20 < morfoh> hi sepp :)
00:21 < sepp> hi morfoh :)
00:22 < sepp> only 2 issues left on my trunk gcc4 target :-)
00:23 < sepp> grub and g77 -> g95
00:23 < _Ragnar_> O_O
00:23 < sepp> or f95?
00:23 < CIA-9> amery * r11850 /trunk/package/base/bcron/bcron.desc: * marked bcron as NOPARALLEL
00:25 < morfoh> sepp: so your target mostly rocks :)
00:25 < sepp> it t2's :D
00:26 < morfoh> sepp: I was waiting for that :D
00:26 < sepp> hehe
00:26 < morfoh> this nudossi sepp is a little "schelm" ;)
00:28 < sepp> ahh and the bootdisk (linuxrc.c) still has the old devfsd code :/
00:29 < valentin> lua needs 11 seconds to parse all the information from packages.db into tables
00:29 < valentin> biggest part besides the 6 second decompression loop are the flist lines
00:29 < CIA-9> amery * r11851 /trunk/package/base/bcron/bcron.conf: 
00:29 < CIA-9> * improved bcron to prepare it's runtime directory structure
00:29 < CIA-9> * improved bcron to install cron.run and crontab from cron package
00:30 < _Ragnar_> O_O
00:31 < _Ragnar_> all the info?
00:31 < _Ragnar_> how much is the memory usage after?
00:31 < valentin> about 30M ... :/
00:34 < _Ragnar_> that's a little much o_o
00:34 < valentin> damn, is there something like getch () for lua to make a skript stop until keypress ?
00:34 < valentin> _Ragnar_: gasgui stores everything, too ...
00:35 < valentin>    io.input():read();
00:36 < valentin> most stuff are those useless file lists
00:37 < _Ragnar_> why store those at all?
00:38 < valentin> dunno ...
00:38 < valentin> what is their purpose in packages.db ?
00:39 < valentin> 34374 kb of dynamic memory used
00:40 < valentin> without storing flists, 3377 kb only
00:41 < sepp> what about to move Build-Target generated .cache files somewhere and use these for Emerge instead of the fat generic ones?
00:41 < sepp> at least as option
00:41 < sepp> on a small target emerge is not really usefull
00:41 < _Ragnar_> huh?
00:41 < _Ragnar_> how so?
00:42 < sepp> store them in some location and parse them instead of fat reference target .cache files
00:43 < sepp> as option
00:43 < valentin> why are those files "fat" ?
00:43 < sepp> because i dont like gnome/kde - e.g.
00:43 < _Ragnar_> uhm yes, and?
00:43 < sepp> they have a lot of junk for a small target
00:44 < _Ragnar_> the cache files do?
00:44 < valentin> sepp : what would you gain from that ?
00:44 < sepp> emerge could rebuild only the deps i really have
00:44 < sepp> not reference build deps
00:44 < sepp> e.g. i have abiword but no gnome
00:45 < sepp> right now emerge -cfg foo abiword leads to chaos - unless i use -deps=none
00:46 < sepp> i hope you understand what i mean 
00:46 < valentin> ah - yes
00:47 < valentin> you want $deps = $cache-deps /cut $target-packages
00:47 < sepp> yes something like this
00:48 < sepp> if it is recursive cut would work also
00:49 < sepp> some way to make emerge more usefull for non reference targets
00:49 < _Ragnar_> uhm
00:49 < _Ragnar_> it doesn't for me O_O it says that it'll install a package that's not present, but just doesn't
00:51 < _Ragnar_> at least not on my soekris (but okay that's already a limited build)
00:51 < valentin> sepp: our main problem is that we cannot distinguis between mandatory and recommended dependencys
00:51 < sepp> yes i know thats why i came up with the build time deps idea
00:51 < sepp> maybe it is stupid ...
00:52 < morfoh> sepp: nope ... it isn't stupid ... it's needed 
00:54 < CIA-9> valentin * r11852 /trunk/misc/lua/parse-db.lua: * parser for packages.db
00:59 < sepp> i thought of something like move Build-Target .cache files to /var/adm/btcache for example and a way to use them instead of /var/adm/cache/
01:00 < morfoh> good night folks :)
01:01 < sepp> night morfoh 
01:01 < morfoh> cu tomorrow :)
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01:02 < valentin> i will leave now, too
01:03 < valentin> gn8
01:03 < sepp> night valentin 
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01:56 < mnemoc> re
02:06 < CIA-9> amery * r11853 /branches/2.1/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 
02:06 < CIA-9> * merged 11844 from trunk: registered cron (53) user
02:06 < CIA-9> * merged 11843,11844,11850,11851 from trunk: added bcron (0.09)
02:49 < sepp> good night all
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03:03 < CIA-9> amery * r11854 /branches/nestedtargets/: * removed branches/nestedtargets/ because it's part of current trunk since long time ago
03:23 < CIA-9> amery * r11855 /branches/mnemoc/: * added branches/mnemoc to mnemoc's discusting things
03:24 < _Ragnar_> *lol*
03:26 < mnemoc> :)
03:28 < CIA-9> amery * r11856 /branches/mnemoc/2.1-scripts-nt/: * copied 2.1/scripts to merge 'target inherence' (nestedtargets) from trunk to 2.1 (for 2.1.1)
03:43 < jsaw> re
03:51 < mnemoc> re jsaw 
03:51 < jsaw> hi mnemoc 
03:51 < mnemoc> jsaw: do you have a minute?
03:51 < jsaw> yep
03:51 < mnemoc> hi :)
03:52 < mnemoc> at lfs i found a modified ssp
03:52 < mnemoc> one that moves the code to glibc
03:53 < jsaw> I've seen your message, we should copy this, definitely
03:54 < mnemoc> :)
03:54 < mnemoc> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/patches/hlfs/svn/glibc-2.3.5-ssp-1.patch
03:54 < mnemoc> _but_ it has a dependency
03:54 < mnemoc> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/patches/hlfs/svn/glibc-2.3.5-arc4random-1.patch
03:54 < mnemoc> do we merge with or without frandom?
03:58 < jsaw> I'd say with... bsd guys are very security focused, aren't they?
03:58 < mnemoc> ok :)
04:00 < CIA-9> amery * r11857 /branches/mnemoc/2.1-scripts-nt/config.in: 
04:00 < CIA-9> * merged 10691 from trunk:
04:00 < CIA-9>  * changed config.in to load config.in before applying target/pkgsel
04:00 < CIA-9>  * improved config.in to autoapply target/pkgsel.{sed,awk,in}
04:00 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11858 /trunk/package/lua/luatar/ (. luatar.desc): * add LuaTAR (0.0)
04:05 < mnemoc> jsaw: papers thesis-related were accepted?
04:05 < jsaw> not completely through yet. But at least it's not in a state to be rejected ...
04:06 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11859 /trunk/package/lua/luatar/luatar.desc: * ups, typo in category
04:06 < jsaw> valentin: luatar !
04:17 < CIA-9> amery * r11860 /branches/mnemoc/2.1-scripts-nt/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
04:17 < CIA-9> * merged 10687 from trunk: added get_expanded and get_reverted to scripts/functions
04:17 < CIA-9> * merged 10688 from trunk: added get_reverted function to scripts/config.func
04:17 < CIA-9> * merged 10689 from trunk: improved parse-config to detect targetchain
04:17 < CIA-9> * merged 10690 from trunk: improved Download to detect and use $targetchain
04:17 < CIA-9> * merged 10692 from trunk: improved Config (config.in) to detect and use $targetchain
04:17 < CIA-9> * merged 10693 from trunk: improved detect_patches to inherite patches from targetchain
04:57 < jsaw> cu later
04:58 < mnemoc> cu jsaw 
07:07 < rxr> moin
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09:46 < valentin> moin
09:50 < Baldzius> morning :)
09:56 < rxr> this damn f*cking CUPS crap
10:11 < _Ragnar_> nini
10:15 < rxr> n8 _Ragnar_ 
10:16 < Baldzius> night :)
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10:23 < morfoh> moin
10:25 < valentin> moin
10:26 < morfoh> hey valentin ... still awake ;)
10:34 < rxr> ouhm
10:35 < rxr> windows driver is equally f*cking ...
10:37 < valentin> morfoh: still ?
10:38 < valentin> quite ... did not sleep very much
10:38 < valentin> but still a bit more than Kerstin :/
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11:05 < rxr> hm - ? Acrobat Reader under Windows has redrawing issues during scrolling ...
11:05 < rxr> what a program and OS ...
11:08 < rxr> ok - cu all
11:15 < rxr> cu
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11:41 < morfoh> hi bfg 
11:43 < CIA-9> chris * r11861 /trunk/package/network/vlan/vlan.desc: * uppdated vlan (1.8 -> 1.9)
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12:09 < bfg> hi morfoh
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12:18 < rxr> hi
12:18 < rxr> gsmp should be online again
12:18 < rxr> issue was hdd losing interrupts stalling the system
12:18 < rxr> guess that IBM disk is falling apart as well
12:18 < rxr> we have to see ...
12:18 < morfoh> hi rxr 
12:18 < rxr> mnemoc: gsmp should be useful again - hopefully for more than some hours
12:55  * morfoh is doing some maintenance on trac host too ... so atm trac isn't available 
13:26 < morfoh> trac is back
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14:09 < rxr> re
14:09 < rxr> mnemoc: awake ?
14:10 < rxr> should we overhaul the whole wrapper to some unified language to combine insert,append,remove and conditional?
14:10 < rxr> e.g. sed alike or so?
14:11 < rxr> /-m.*/d
14:11 < morfoh> wb rxr 
14:12 < rxr> hi morfoh 
14:12 < rxr> well - I think about it
14:12 < rxr> cu later - lunch
14:13 < morfoh> rxr: good appetite ;)
15:41 < rxr> re
15:41 < morfoh> wb rxr 
16:06 < mnemoc> moin
16:06 < mnemoc> rxr: pong
16:06 < morfoh> moin mnemoc 
16:06 < mnemoc> moin morfoh 
16:07 < mnemoc> morfoh: i branched 2.1' script/ to support target inherence, and a do-nothing sheba is on mnemosyne repo
16:08 < mnemoc> rxr: i don't know how possible unification is because remove should only remove original arguments and not arguments inserted or appended by the wrapper
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16:17 < mnemoc> hi bfg 
16:18 < mnemoc> morfoh: how distant is current mnemosyne from your work on sheba?
16:18 < rxr> mnemoc: well - that is not an issue for unification - since we are free to implement it the way we need - that is only do the substitution rules on the original arguments
16:18 < rxr> basically i wonder what syntax to use
16:18 < rxr> should I implement a quick hack additional conditional just for testing for your -pie and -as-needed?
16:19 < rxr> and look for a more generic ruleset later on ?
16:19 < mnemoc> rxr: i would hide as much complexity as posible
16:19 < rxr> if so what syntax?
16:19 < rxr> _WRAPPER_CONDITIONAL="-c?:-Wl,--pie"
16:20 < rxr> just define what you want for tonight and you will get it ,-)
16:20 < rxr> but first I need to hack a ssh start-keygen / stop entry for archivista ...
16:20 < mnemoc> "pat1?:pat2" sounds ok.... but CONDITIONAL thing is not needed
16:21 < mnemoc> normal WRAPPER entries with the ability of detecting conditional entries is cleaner
16:21 < rxr> like scanning for a ? in any append remove ?
16:22 < rxr> assuming noone wants: _WRAPPER_APPEND="--enable-?able-hack" ?
16:22 < mnemoc> '\?:'  :)
16:22 < mnemoc> ? itself can be part of the pattern
16:22 < mnemoc> so ?:
16:22 < mnemoc> i don't imagine any gcc rule with :
16:22 < mnemoc> s/rule/arguemnt/
16:23 < rxr> so the syntax is:
16:23 < mnemoc> "-c?:-Wl,--pie"
16:23 < rxr> GCC_WRAPPER_APPEND="-c?:-Wl,--pie", right ?
16:24 < mnemoc> yes
16:24 < mnemoc> what do you think?
16:24 < rxr> yeah - for now
16:24 < rxr> I came up with the combined ruleset, because it will be easier to use, parse and faster
16:24 < rxr> but I hack this conditional everything right after the archivsita menu entries ... ,-)
16:25 < mnemoc> for future i would pre-compile current set instead of changing syntax
16:27 < rxr> pre-compile ?
16:27 < mnemoc> converting to something faster to process
16:28 < mnemoc> or even a really compiling a hardcoded wrapper
16:30 < mnemoc> morfoh: ping
16:30 < mnemoc> morfoh: i need to install a sheba tomorrow morning
16:31 < rxr> mnemoc: thew wrapper params are dynamic per package ...
16:32 < mnemoc> so? 
16:32 < mnemoc> helper can be also compiled per-package
16:32 < mnemoc> isn't that expesive
16:32 < mnemoc> and a faster wrapper is more benefit
16:36 < morfoh> mnemoc: oh! 
16:36 < rxr> mnemoc: ah - yep, ack
16:36 < rxr> but a better syntax would clean the code and "easier" to use
16:37 < mnemoc> rxr: yes, lets improve the sintax later :)
16:37 < morfoh> mnemoc: but not a diet based sheba I hope 
16:37 < morfoh> mnemoc: give me some hints what you have to do 
16:38 < mnemoc> morfoh: i have to install a qmail-ldap 3h away.... so i'll install a sheba and remotely install the other target inside
16:39 < morfoh> mnemoc: so you want to run the the qmail-ldap on the host not in a vserver ?
16:39 < mnemoc> morfoh: i wanted to install a PAX/diet sheba but.... if no other choice i'll do it SSP/glibc
16:40 < mnemoc> morfoh: on a vserver
16:40 < mnemoc> morfoh: sheba will 'host' it
16:41 < morfoh> mnemoc: I think you should use SSP/GLIBC if you can, because I've not tested diet sheba fully yet
16:41 < mnemoc> as far as i don't touch vserver's partitions, i can reinstall the host without damaging the small tuxies inside
16:41 < morfoh> mnemoc: ack
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16:42 < mnemoc> morfoh: switch scripts/ dir of 2.1 to my branch and add the externals for mnemosyne2,sheba,lamassu,....
16:43 < mnemoc> morfoh: so we can work together
16:43 < morfoh> mnemoc: how do you want to remotely access the vserver where qmail-ldap is running in ?
16:43 < mnemoc> ssh
16:43 < mnemoc> first to context 0
16:43 < morfoh> ah! ok 
16:43 < mnemoc> later to dropbears inside each context
16:44 < mnemoc> does dropbear auth against a pubkey?
16:44 < morfoh> ah! ok ... then I should move home now quickly 
16:45 < morfoh> mnemoc: afaik yes
16:45  * morfoh hates his current NS provider ... 
17:07 -!- rxr_ [i=rene@e178151050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
17:07 -!- Topic for #t2:  T2 | 2.1.0-rc3 TAGGED | The next generation of System Development Environments (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | BT http://torrent.t2-project.org/
17:07 -!- Topic set by vilkacis [] [Fri Sep  2 18:13:08 2005]
17:07 [Users #t2]
17:07 [@vilkacis ] [ _Ragnar_] [ jsaw  ] [ mtr] [ rxr_  ] [ sparc-kly] 
17:07 [ [Kosh]   ] [ Baldzius] [ mnemoc] [ nzg] [ sepp_ ] [ valentin ] 
17:07 [ _Lewellyn] [ CIA-9   ] [ morfoh] [ rxr] [ SerWou] 
17:07 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
17:07 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug  8 21:15:33 2004
17:07 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 10 secs
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17:10 < morfoh> ok ... ladies and gentlemen ... cu later
17:11 < mnemoc> :(
17:11 < morfoh> moving home now, before it's starting to rain
17:11 < morfoh> I have no jacket with me 
17:12 < morfoh> mnemoc: don't be sad. I'll be online in about 1h
17:13 < morfoh> mnemoc: btw, do you run a DNS on your external host ?
17:14 < mnemoc> nope, internal
17:15 < morfoh> hmmm .... ok. thought I could circumvent the current NS provider because I need a secondary NS
17:15 < morfoh> ok cu
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17:18 -!- You're now known as rxr
17:30 < mnemoc> how can i screenshot a window?
17:31 < mnemoc> import -something?
17:34 < mnemoc> outch
17:34 < rxr> import
17:34 < rxr> or gimp
17:34 < rxr> or ksnapshot
17:34 < mnemoc> -window imports what _you_ see on window area... including the other windows over it
17:34 < rxr> my windows XP toy does not shut down due to mmc.exe running
17:34 < rxr> what is that? real app or virus?
17:35 < rxr> my XP also tells me all the time the computer is insecure ...
17:35 < rxr> as if I would not know that based on the OS running ...
17:35 < rxr> strange thing. ...
17:35 < mnemoc> no idea
17:35 < rxr> mnemoc: yes - what you see is what you get
17:35 < rxr> if you want something else you need to run a X Server with double buffering or what it was named
17:36 < rxr> otherwise X has no data of the overlapped windows ....
17:36 < mnemoc> ic
17:37 < rxr> Option "BackingStore"
17:37 < rxr> but I think it had drawbacks and not garuanteet to backing store windows
17:37 < rxr> only if video memory is availble
17:37 < rxr> if you need backing store run a bleeding edge X with composite manager running
17:38 < rxr> and everything is garuanteed to be on off screen pixmaps ...
17:38 < mnemoc> o.o
17:42 < rxr> now windows suspended to RAM while shutting down
17:43 < rxr> what a crap thig
17:43 < rxr> good that I only use it for teting and driver reverse engeneering ...
17:43 < rxr> I barely can think about how people would do real work with this immature OS ...
17:45 < mnemoc> the only thing they know
17:47 < mnemoc> pray for that poor people
17:49 < rxr> pray that they discover the strenth of Linux sooner than later, yes
17:51 < mnemoc> ack
17:51 < mnemoc> the light of open source
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18:00 < bfg> hi
18:01 < mnemoc> hi bfg 
18:33 < CIA-9> amery * r11863 /trunk/package/emulators/qemu/qemu.desc: * updated qemu (0.7.1 -> 0.7.2)
18:36 < rxr> oh
18:47 < mnemoc> rxr: something wrong?
18:53 < mnemoc> outch!
18:53 < _Ragnar_> ?
18:53 < mnemoc> on 2.1 bootdisk's /dev/discs i have _259_ entries!
18:54 < mnemoc> (under qemu)
18:54 < rxr> hm - no idea
18:54 < rxr> mnemoc: how did your server install go yesterday or when it was ?
18:54 < mnemoc> pointing to /dev/md/
18:54 < mnemoc> rxr: tomorrow morning
18:54 < rxr> mnemoc: hm
18:55 < rxr> mnemoc: one more archivista *.sh thing to do - I must finish the conditional stuff today - grummel
18:55 < mnemoc> rxr: i'll install it pie-less... don't worry ;)
18:58 < rxr> I thought so - but I promised to write the cond. stuff today - and got to many calls today ...
18:59 < mnemoc> :)
19:18 < CIA-9> rene * r11864 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/ (.fluxbox/menu db-master-disable.sh db-master.sh): 
19:18 < CIA-9> * completed more parts of archivista/db-master.sh and added a new
19:18 < CIA-9>  db-master-disable.sh, including to the menu
19:33 < CIA-9> rene * r11865 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/db-slave.sh: * more work on archivista/db-slave.sh
19:35 < valentin> re
19:35 < rxr> hey valentin!
19:42 < rxr> valentin: I got direct mails from a OSX driver custommer in the netherlands I think - they have quite a lot feature enhancement wishes - but overall are pretty happy with the stability of the driver (compared to HP software they had before) and my in-depth reply to their mail - guess they never got a reply from a company writing device drivers ... ,-)
19:42 < rxr> valentin: I fear we soon should refactor the code to be able to include next gen image enhanvements we know are needed and customers ask for
19:42 < _Ragnar_> *hrhr* that's kinda usual, isn't it?
19:42 < rxr> valentin: regarding the australian deal - this is still under discussion ...
19:44 < valentin> rxr: thanks for keeping me up to date.
19:44 < valentin> can you forward the mails ?
19:44 < rxr> valentin: the australian sale is discussed on phone ...
19:45 < rxr> the feature enhancements wished are in the TODO file
19:49 < rxr> ok - new tea and then conditonal wrapper ...
19:50 < _Ragnar_> tea ...
19:52 < rxr> _Ragnar_: yep?
19:52 < rxr> s.th. you could need as well ?
19:53 < rxr> t2-trunk# rm -rf ieee80211-1.0.3* gplflash2/ linux-2.6.12/ crosstool-0.38*
19:53 < rxr> die crosstool die ...
19:54 < mnemoc> gplflash _sucks_
19:54 < mnemoc> at least as plugin
19:54 < rxr> mnemoc: right now - but imagine in 3 months - half a year ,-)!
19:54 < _Ragnar_> rxr: yes
19:55 < _Ragnar_> they don't even sell paper tea filters here ;p
19:56  * valentin scans one paper filter to email _Ragnar_ 
19:56 < _Ragnar_> :D
19:57 < valentin> i'm damn tired, too
19:57 < rxr> _Ragnar_: oh
19:57 < valentin> i wonder where 60cm children take their energy from
19:57 < valentin> i have a theory, they draw it from their parents
19:58 < _Ragnar_> *hrhr* leeches :)
19:59 < rxr> f*ck f*ck f*ck
20:00 < rxr> this is the 4th time my new sub-notebook turns of because I forgot to plug in the power suply 
20:00 < rxr> damn grummel ...
20:00 < rxr> off even
20:00 -!- morfoh [n=jeru@p54BED073.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
20:01 < rxr> _Ragnar_: maybe you should import or we export some http://www.teekampagne.de/ tea to you ?
20:01 < rxr> with a euro palete of filters in addition ?
20:02 < rxr> btw. _Ragnar_  are you permanently in the US or only for some time ?
20:04 < valentin> _Ragnar_: maybe this one helps you: http://www.colawp.com/colas/400/cola467_recipe.html
20:09 -!- Baldzius [n=mx@84.46.226.121] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:10 < _Ragnar_> rxr: for some time
20:10 -!- Baldzius [n=mx@84.46.226.121] has joined #t2
20:11 < _Ragnar_> valentin: *loool*
20:12 < _Lewellyn> _Ragnar_: hoi.
20:12 < _Ragnar_> hi hi
20:12 < _Lewellyn> what's the status of your 64-bit build? :)
20:13 < _Ragnar_> my bf is more or less using a 64 bit system right now
20:13 < _Lewellyn> amd64 or em64t?
20:14 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: can you give me a list of things to merge into 2.1 to achieve that?
20:15 < _Ragnar_> uhm
20:15 < _Ragnar_> amd64
20:16 < _Ragnar_> mnemoc: a lot? O_O
20:16 < _Lewellyn> that should install on em64t, right?
20:16 < _Lewellyn> "should", rather :)
20:16 < _Ragnar_> no clue
20:17 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: we have to start in some minute, don't we?
20:17 < _Lewellyn> do you have an iso? i may try it out tonite.
20:18 < _Lewellyn> since it sounds non-trivial for me to just go and do a 64-bit build :(
20:18 < _Ragnar_> no iso and haven't even looked at how to get the bootdisk to work
20:18 < _Lewellyn> oh...
20:18 < _Ragnar_> but I can give you the packages so you can install it from a normal 32bit iso
20:20 < _Lewellyn> so, i'd just go and install the packages over a 2.1 minimal install?
20:20 < _Ragnar_> uhm no
20:20 < _Ragnar_> boot from a 2.1 cd
20:21 < _Ragnar_> then mine -i the gem files
20:21 < _Ragnar_> (the 64 bit gem files)
20:21 < _Lewellyn> ah. ok.
20:22 < _Lewellyn> those packages would be appreciated, yes. i'd then be able to let you know if they work with em64t :)
20:22 < _Lewellyn> (theoretically, they should...)
20:23 < _Ragnar_> okay :)
20:24 < _Ragnar_> do you want gcc3 or gcc4 ?
20:24 < morfoh> hi _Ragnar_, _Lewellyn, *
20:25 < _Ragnar_> hey mnemoc 
20:25 < _Ragnar_> oops
20:25 < _Ragnar_> hey morfoh 
20:25 < morfoh> :)
20:28 < mnemoc> *g*
20:28 -!- bfg [n=bfg@chello080109010143.16.14.univie.teleweb.at] has quit ["Verlassend"]
20:35 < _Lewellyn> _Ragnar_: which should i want? :)
20:35 < _Lewellyn> hoi morfoh 
20:37 < mnemoc> gcc4 has nice new features but it's strictness is .... at least ridiculous
20:37 < _Ragnar_> gcc4 is more up to date, but quite a few packages fail with it
20:38 < _Lewellyn> _Ragnar_: i'd prefer whichever gives me the least headaches...
20:39 < _Lewellyn> i'm looking for a stable 64-bit system, not a bleeding-edge system that needs daily updates :)
20:39 < _Ragnar_> *hrhr*
20:39 < mnemoc> _Lewellyn: you would need to wait until _Ragnar_ help me to merge amd64 changes from trunk to 2.1 
20:40 < _Lewellyn> hrm. what's the timeframe on that?
20:40 < mnemoc> ask _Ragnar_ 
20:40 < _Lewellyn> the only pressing need i have for 64-bitness is to use vmware 5.5 with solaris 10 64-bit as a guest
20:41 < _Ragnar_> O_O
20:41 < _Lewellyn> their tester says that i can't run 64-bit guests with my current host
20:48 < _Ragnar_> I have no experience at all with slowlaris
20:48 < mnemoc> i don't want to have experience with solaris again 
20:49 < _Lewellyn> i prefer solaris. but i'm stuck with linux, thanks to vmware :)
20:49 < _Lewellyn> i also need a vm with 64-bit solaris at work ini the not-too-distant future
20:49 < _Lewellyn> i'm getting good at killing a shared physical machine with load tests...
21:05 < rxr> mnemoc: I plan to build a x86-64 2.1 soon
21:06 < mnemoc> rxr: great
21:06 < _Ragnar_> good luck
21:06 < _Ragnar_> quite a lot of gnome still doesn't work
21:08 < _Ragnar_> _Lewellyn: http://66.146.166.62/~ragnar/t2-amd64-gcc4/
21:08 < rxr> _Ragnar_: that is not 64 bit but gnome specific
21:08 < mnemoc> gnome vs. gcc4 issue?
21:09 < _Ragnar_> no, even before the gcc3/gnome.12 update
21:09 < _Ragnar_> oops gcc4/
21:10 < CIA-9> rene * r11866 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/ (db-master-disable.sh db-master.sh db-slave.sh): 
21:10 < CIA-9> * fixed archivista master - slave setup, including syncing the correct
21:10 < CIA-9>  data, setting, revoking the permissions, making sure mysqld is dead
21:10 < CIA-9>  and last but not least displaying a big warning that all data will
21:10 < CIA-9>  be lost on the slave box ...
21:10 < rxr> _Ragnar_: yes - gnome 2.10 in T2 was not fully functional
21:11 < rxr> I gave up throwing time on that at that time
21:11 < rxr> I think most icons / apps not shown bugs are due to prefix != /usr
21:12 < _Ragnar_> I dunno ... I fixed a bit, but now the boss is back and I have little time to spend on it
21:13 < _Lewellyn> rxr: that is truly a lame reason :(
21:14 < mnemoc> afaik the icons things is ruled by a single gtk/themes thing
21:16 < CIA-9> rene * r11867 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/ (.fluxbox/menu db-master-pause.sh): * added "pause master db for slave setup" to the archivista target
21:16 < rxr> _Lewellyn: it is not my code ...
21:16 < rxr> _Lewellyn: and it is lame - yes - that's gnome ...
21:16 < _Lewellyn> i know it's not your code, and i agree that gnome is lame. i was just stating the obvious :)
21:17 < mnemoc> .oO( i should patch cdrecord to not flame linux26 )o
21:34 < CIA-9> rene * r11868 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/ (db-master-disable.sh db-master.sh): * fixed archivista/db-master* SQL commands - oh my
21:35 < CIA-9> rene * r11869 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/db-master-pause.sh: * marked archivista/db-master-pause.sh as svn:executable
21:39 < CIA-9> rene * r11870 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/db-slave.sh: 
21:39 < CIA-9> * kill accidently running mysql daemons more inteligently and hide
21:39 < CIA-9>  errors in archivista/db-slave.sh
21:41 < rxr> mnemoc: yes, please
21:41 < rxr> mnemoc: but be aware that AFAIR the code contains a clause that it is not licensed under GPL or so when you remove those warnings
21:41 < rxr> however I would not care and rip them ,-)
21:42 < mnemoc> :)
21:42 < rxr> Durchschnittlich 40 US-Dollar Fertigungskosten pro Intel-Prozessor
21:43 < _Lewellyn> wait. the code is gpl. how can it not be gpl with a modification? o_O
21:44 < _Lewellyn> and my german sucks. does that really say US$40 pentium?
21:44 < rxr> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/63911
21:44 < mnemoc> ./scripts/Create-CopyPatch doesn't support directories with spaces :p
21:44 < rxr> is says that a report claims that the average manufactoring costs per intel CPU are about 40US$
21:45 < rxr> _40_
21:45 < sepp_> huhu
21:45 < mnemoc> nice profit
21:45 < rxr> the study was done by In-Stat - the company releasing the microprocessor report ...
21:45 < mnemoc> so, the rest is... research?
21:45 < _Ragnar_> subtract r&d
21:46 < rxr> _Ragnar_: though a lot of r&d - devided by the many CPUs there is not too much per cpu
21:46 < _Lewellyn> r&d and manpower and advertising and facilities...
21:46 < _Lewellyn> that's not cheap
21:47 < rxr> sure not - but devided by _a lot of_ cpus ...
21:47 < rxr> substract the huge profit ... to the shareholds ... and such ...
21:54 < CIA-9> pfister * r11871 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/.vimrc: settings for VIM
21:57 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11872 /trunk/package/gnome2/loudmouth/ (loudmouth.desc loudmouth_gnutls.patch): * update loudmouth (0.17.2 -> 1.0.1)
21:57 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11873 /trunk/package/gnome2/gossip/gossip.desc: * update gossip (0.8 -> 0.9 * update gossip (0.8 -> 0.9)
21:57 < mnemoc> o.o
22:03 < CIA-9> rene * r11874 /trunk/package/editors/vim/vim.conf: 
22:03 < CIA-9> * fixed our vim package to copy the example config to the place where it is
22:03 < CIA-9>  read by vim ...
22:03 < _Lewellyn> mmmm vim....
22:03 < _Lewellyn> :)
22:11 < rxr> .-)
22:13 < sepp_> hmmm edlin
22:13 < mnemoc> :D
22:14 < sepp_> the strange thing is i learned it in school
22:14 < sepp_> well learn ...
22:19 < _Lewellyn> edlin had interesting features... i kinda miss it...
22:21  * mnemoc has an old ms dos 2.0 book with look descriptions of edlin and assembler programming, etc..
22:23 < _Lewellyn> i think edlin was far better than ms-dos edit.
22:23 < _Lewellyn> dr's editor and ibm's editor were both far better
22:23 < _Lewellyn> dr-dos edit had wordstar keybindings. :)
22:23  * sepp_ has a old amiga book with amiga emacs ...
22:24 < sepp_> :)
22:24 < mnemoc> sepp_: :D
22:26 < rxr> I have this rusian pts-dos
22:26 < rxr> because ms-dos got on my nerves ...
22:26 < rxr> though that was on the end of my DOS area ...
22:27 < rxr> and I missed the extra money for the "assembly source included" version :-(
22:28 < _Lewellyn> hm. which version of pts-dos?
22:29 < rxr> ouehm
22:29  * rxr looking for the maunal in the shelft 
22:31 < rxr> hm - there is no version on the book
22:31 < rxr> and I think I have the floppy disk @ my parents home 300km away ...
22:31 < _Lewellyn> hm. i can only find the latest version for sale. if it's not the latest version, i may be interested in buying it from you.
22:31 < _Lewellyn> but there is absolutely no rush :)
22:31 < rxr> it is (c) 1995
22:32 < rxr> _Lewellyn: you want to buy my version if it is a older one ?
22:32 < rxr> btw. I only have the german manual for it ...
22:32 < rxr> I think even the dialogs have been translated - though english was available
22:34 < _Lewellyn> well, if it had an english-language version of the os, i'd be quite interested, yes.
22:34 < _Lewellyn> i collect :)
22:34 < rxr> it is definetly way older than the stuff @ http://www.phystechsoft.com/ptsdos/products.php?page=4
22:34 < rxr> it is not pts-dos 32 or 2000 or so ...
22:34 < rxr> it is from about 1995 and was shipped on one 1.5MB disk
22:36 < _Lewellyn> ya, that's the era that interests me. back when it was really an embedded dos.
22:40 < mnemoc> does anyone use a console font different than default?
22:40 < rxr> nope
22:42 < _Lewellyn> console == console or xterm?
22:42 < mnemoc> console :)
22:43 < _Lewellyn> no. i vga=3, which gives me a 80x25 terminal with alternate glyphs for some possibly confuseable characters
22:50 < mnemoc> .oO
22:53 < _Ragnar_> re
22:59 < CIA-9> amery * r11875 /branches/2.1/package/base/bcron/ (00-updates.cron 10-checksys.cron): * added .cron files from cron to bcron
23:04 < CIA-9> amery * r11876 /trunk/scripts/Create-CopyPatch: * improved Create-CopyPatch to support spaces on $filename
23:07 < CIA-9> rene * r11877 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/etc/hotplug.d/default/90-backup.hotplug: 
23:07 < CIA-9> * new normal (unencrypted) import / export for
23:07 < CIA-9>  archivista/.../90-backup.hotplug
23:10 < sepp_> base/gcc MENU_COMPILER is a rock relict?
23:14 < mnemoc> kind of
23:14 < _Lewellyn> mnemoc: my card has interesting video modes :)
23:14 < mnemoc> _Lewellyn: what card is that?
23:15 < mnemoc> sun something? ;)
23:15 < _Lewellyn> some quadro. forget the model off the top of my head
23:22 < sepp_> ahh the hair-drier cards 
23:23 < mnemoc> uhm?
23:24 < sepp_> i have a quadro and it sounds like a hair-drier
23:24 < sepp_> becuase of the agressive fan
23:25 < _Ragnar_> *g*
23:25 < _Ragnar_> is it trying to draw you in and eat you?
23:26 -!- sparc-kly|Univ [n=mubex@66-50-123-218.prtc.net] has joined #t2
23:26 < mnemoc> i have an onboard... riva tnt? at home :p
23:27 < sepp_> well you before it eats you - you will be deaf
23:42 < mnemoc> oh, menu_begin on Config is fubar!
23:43 < mnemoc> it not just hide, it avoid execution!
23:51 < _Lewellyn> sepp_: i can't hear the card over the massive heat sink/fan on the cpu :)
23:53 -!- mnemoc [n=amery@200.75.27.28] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:53 < CIA-9> rene * r11878 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/etc/hotplug.d/default/90-backup.hotplug: * database selection for 90-backup.hotplug
23:55 -!- mnemoc [n=amery@200.75.27.17] has joined #t2
--- Log closed Thu Sep 15 00:00:31 2005