T2 IRC Log: 2006-03-13
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Mon Mar 13 00:00:11 2006
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08:42 < valentin> moin
08:42 < owl> hi valentin
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08:47 < morfoh> moin
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11:35 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: LMJ, @ChanServ, sepp, valentin
11:37 -!- Netsplit over, joins: sepp, valentin
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11:56 < morfoh> re
11:57 < valentin> lol: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/70754
11:58 < valentin> ^- ubuntu stores the root passwd in a world-readable PLAINTEXT file :)
11:59 < valentin> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/shadow/+bug/34606
11:59 < valentin> i would not call that one just a "bug"
12:05 < morfoh> valentin: indeed... this is by far the most user friendly linux... no headaches for getting root access :D
12:06 < valentin> they wanted to create a linux that feels like windows. i think they almost completed that goal
12:07 < morfoh> ack
12:15 < morfoh> the advice to upgrade to the latest development version of the affected packages is quite nice too
12:16 < morfoh> perhaps they should start a new "subproject" called "cowbuntu"
12:17 < morfoh> ok ... enough flaming.
12:19 < valentin> :)
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13:56 < LMJ_at_work> hello guys ;)
14:05 < LMJ_at_work> I'm not sure, but it's "initrd" who load everything after the BIOS and make ":-)" or ":-(" ?
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14:09 < LMJ2> oups, sorry back ;)
14:20 -!- sparc-kly [n=mubex@64.237.241.51] has joined #t2
14:33 < LMJ2> ping rxr_ or sepp jsaw ?
14:36 -!- rxr [n=rene@e178170068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
14:36 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.1.1 and 2.2.0-epsilon RELEASED! | The System Development Environment (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | Say hello and do not hesitate to ask us any questions that you may have. | http://www.rafb.net/paste/
14:36 -!- Topic set by mnemoc [] [Sat Mar 11 22:55:45 2006]
14:36 [Users #t2]
14:36 [@ChanServ] [ idealm] [ LMJ2 ] [ rxr ] [ sparc-kly ] [ _Ragnar_]
14:36 [ Baldzius] [ jsaw ] [ morfoh] [ rxr_] [ sparc-kly_]
14:36 [ CIA-18 ] [ LMJ ] [ owl ] [ sepp] [ valentin ]
14:36 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 16 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
14:36 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 19:15:33 2004
14:36 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
14:37 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 36 secs
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14:40 < mtr> moin
14:41 < jsaw> LMJ2: :-) etal is after pivot_root (which means in-system)
14:44 < LMJ2> i don't know etal nor pivot_root, they are managing the whole booting process ?
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14:59 < jsaw> LMJ2: pivot_root is similiar to "chroot", meaning, the boot process is transferred to the host-system after initrd
15:00 < LMJ2> so boot -> grub -> initrd -> pivot_root ?
15:01 < jsaw> "etal" = "et al." = and others
15:02 < jsaw> LMJ2: boot-> grub -> kernel+initrd -> start init process (from initrd) -> (... mount root device ...) -> pivot_root (start init of root device)
15:07 < LMJ2> thanks ;)
15:12 < jsaw> welcome :)
15:28 < LMJ2> gtg ;)
15:28 < LMJ2> see you at home mate
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15:57 < LMJ> moin moin ;)
15:59 < rxr> re
16:02 < rxr> cu later
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18:18 -!- mnemoc [n=amery@user4-2.tutopia-dialup.ifxnw.cl] has joined #t2
18:19 < mnemoc> moin!
18:25 < sepp> moin mnemoc :)
18:29 < mnemoc> hi sepp :)
18:29 < mnemoc> i survived my journey from hannover to berlin :p
18:29 < sepp> survived?
18:30 < morfoh> hi mnemoc ... good to hear that! :)
18:30 < mnemoc> sepp: i didn't die or get lost
18:30 < mnemoc> morfoh: hi :)
18:31 < morfoh> :)
18:32 < sepp> you took a post carriage and feared bandits ?
18:32 < morfoh> sepp: I think he was even the horse :)
18:33 < sepp> hehe
18:34 < sepp> what was supposed to read PCI_SKIP_MODULES in /etc/conf/pci ?
18:34 < mnemoc> o_O
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19:06 < morfoh> holy shit ... jsaw you were _absolutely_ right. packaging lua 3rd. party stuff is a pain :/
19:08 < mnemoc> what has to be done?
19:09 < morfoh> mnemoc: the makefiles and configs are mostly crap
19:10 < mnemoc> :(
19:10 < morfoh> I disabled the gcc config and injected the needed stuff via makeopt and so on
19:11 < morfoh> but I guess if I cleanup my test package it will be looking nicer
19:14 < morfoh> and it looks much more sane and afiacs it's now linked properly
19:14 < morfoh> at least nearly :|
19:15 < mnemoc> have anyone seen axion reciently?
19:16 < morfoh> nope
19:17 < mnemoc> i fear we lost our 'american' mirror :(
19:17 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_ will have to provide one
19:19 < morfoh> mnemoc: ack ... I heard sth. like that :)
19:22 < _Ragnar_> O_O
19:24 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: did your heard the same?
19:24 < _Ragnar_> I only know it's down
19:26 < mnemoc> i mean about _Ragnar_'s new mirror
19:28 < _Ragnar_> uhm :p I don't have that kinda bandwidth
19:30 < morfoh> mnemoc: have you seen my query ?
19:30 < mnemoc> morfoh: i guess i would have seen it if you identify yourself to god nickserv
19:30 < morfoh> yeah ... I wasn't
19:30 < mnemoc> :)
19:31 < mnemoc> get keepnick.pl
19:32 * mnemoc wonders about packaging http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/en/instructions/
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19:38 < jsaw> sepp: PCI_SKIP_MODULES used to be read by rockplug
19:40 < mnemoc> PCI_SKIP_MODULES works perfectly on t2 2.1
19:40 < mnemoc> but the ISA stuff is borked on stone
19:40 < sepp> thanks - is there a skip feature for trunk?
19:41 < mnemoc> hotplug++ ...
19:44 < sepp> is this a yes or a no? :)
19:45 < jsaw> sepp: not in that way. I tried the documented "blacklist" in modprobe.conf, but something didn't work out
19:45 < jsaw> alias module-name off
19:46 < jsaw> works, but, modprobe complains about not being able to find the module "off"
19:46 < mnemoc> jsaw: did you see my messages yesterday night?
19:47 < jsaw> mnemoc: yes :)
19:47 < jsaw> bias (bringing daughter to bed)
19:48 < mnemoc> :)
20:12 < jsaw> re
20:12 < jsaw> mnemoc: what's AJAX?
20:13 < jsaw> ah, wikipedia...
20:17 < mnemoc> javascript to get XML from teh server an render the content dinamicly without actually refreshing the page
20:18 < jsaw> xavante?
20:19 < morfoh> mnemoc: I fixed luaexpat :)
20:20 < morfoh> fucking sh*t it wasn't 5.1 aware
20:20 < jsaw> morfoh: please check that it links dynamically to expat
20:21 < morfoh> jsaw: it is ;)
20:21 < morfoh> jsaw: I had to inject -lexpat
20:21 < jsaw> ah right, that was it
20:22 < jsaw> (long time ago I tested it, and, obviously didn't understand the simple solution...)
20:22 < morfoh> jsaw: I'll cleanup my package and commit the tiny beast
20:22 < morfoh> my little test prog works so far
20:23 < morfoh> this parser can be quite handy :)
20:23 < jsaw> yep, expat is nice
20:23 < mnemoc> with lua we could even use fefe's
20:23 < mnemoc> LUGRA_ItaloRamirez: 's
20:23 < mnemoc> LUGRA_ItaloRamirez: err
20:26 < morfoh> jsaw: but I changed some parts of the lua package too
20:27 < morfoh> I've created a lua.conf.in for $myLIBS $myCFLAGS and some other
20:27 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15799 /trunk/package/base/runit/rockify.patch: * s/X11R6/X11/ in /etc/runit/2
20:28 < jsaw> lua.conf.in?
20:28 < morfoh> perhaps this isn't right, I just wanted to "inherit" some stuff from lua package
20:29 < jsaw> oh, that u mean
20:29 < morfoh> for 3rd. party stuff
20:29 < jsaw> morfoh: better use "lua-conf.in", that's what most other packages use in such a case
20:30 < morfoh> jsaw: ok
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20:53 < CIA-18> chris * r15800 /trunk/package/develop/lua/ (lua-conf.in lua.conf lua.pc):
20:53 < CIA-18> * removed -llua -lm from lua.pc template
20:53 < CIA-18> * added -llua -lm to $myLIBS
20:53 < CIA-18> * added lua-conf.in for sharing some variables with lua 3rd. party packages
20:53 < CIA-18> * added line to include lua-conf.in and cleaned up the conf file
20:57 < jsaw> morfoh: pkgprefix ver lua
20:57 < jsaw> lua_pkg_ver=$( pkgprefix ver lua )
20:57 < morfoh> jsaw: thanks :)
21:02 -!- mnemoc [n=kvirc@e178170068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
21:02 < morfoh> wb mnemoc
21:02 < mnemoc> uhm
21:02 < mnemoc> my F* shell server has network troubles again
21:07 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p213.54.141.198.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
21:10 < mnemoc> wb sepp
21:15 < mnemoc> damn it's cold
21:15 < jsaw> hehe
21:16 < mnemoc> :)
21:16 < jsaw> mnemoc: now you know what we mean when talking about "cold"
21:16 < mnemoc> *but* it's not yet as cold as been on a cold damn at my former office sit there the whole day
21:17 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15801 /trunk/package/lua/lua-pcre/ (lrexlib-conf.in string.lua):
21:17 < CIA-18> * move "string.lua" out of lrexlib-conf.in into its own file
21:17 < CIA-18> and use a sed to build it for lua-pcre and lua-rx
21:17 < jsaw> *g*
21:21 < CIA-18> chris * r15802 /trunk/package/develop/lua/lua-conf.in: * fixed lua-conf.in to use pkgprefix to get the lua version
21:21 < morfoh> *g*
21:27 < CIA-18> chris * r15803 /trunk/package/lua/luaexpat/ (6 files): * added luaexpat (1.0.1)
21:27 < morfoh> jsaw: ^ for that small lib
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21:28 < morfoh> 5 files for getting one .so
21:30 < morfoh> jsaw: http://www.keplerproject.org/luaexpat/examples.html <-- examples are working
22:17 < jsaw> re
22:17 < morfoh> wb jsaw
22:17 < jsaw> morfoh: hmm, probably it wouldn't have been a problem to make one patch, but whatever
22:21 < morfoh> jsaw: I like to split the patches
22:21 < jsaw> ic
22:21 < jsaw> morfoh: do you really need the no-config.patch ?
22:21 < morfoh> yes
22:22 < jsaw> == 03/13/06 23:23:41 =[9]=> Aborted building package luaexpat.
22:22 < jsaw> hmmm
22:22 < morfoh> uhm ?
22:22 < jsaw> fPIC missing
22:22 < jsaw> (on x86-64)
22:22 < morfoh> ic
22:22 < morfoh> add it :p
22:23 < morfoh> jsaw: do you have much against the no-config-patch ?
22:24 < morfoh> I think this way we're a bit more flexible
22:24 < morfoh> than using sed
22:24 < jsaw> yes: with the makefile.patch, config is not touched
22:25 < morfoh> ah! ok ..
22:25 < morfoh> remove it
22:25 < jsaw> at it :)
22:25 < morfoh> :)
22:28 < mnemoc> jsaw: what do you think about branching the trunk to add a the bootstraping layer on our tools? :)
22:28 < mnemoc> .oO( on your spare time of course )o
22:28 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15804 /trunk/package/lua/luaexpat/ (luaexpat.conf no-config.patch):
22:28 < CIA-18> * no-config.patch not needed as config file not touched due to the
22:28 < CIA-18> makefile.patch
22:28 < CIA-18> * fPIC is needed
22:29 < jsaw> mnemoc: see comment on bug #101 (iirc)
22:30 < mnemoc> bug #101??? wtf is that?
22:30 < jsaw> http://trac.t2-project.org/ticket/101
22:30 < morfoh> 2.2.0-alpha-x86-athlon-mnemosyne:
22:30 < morfoh> [5] xorg/xf86-video-i810
22:30 < mnemoc> *g*
22:30 < morfoh> 624 builds total, 369 completed fine, 1 with errors.
22:30 < morfoh> oops
22:30 < morfoh> ;)
22:31 < jsaw> mnemoc: just yesterday...
22:31 < mnemoc> jsaw: -nobashmod ?
22:31 < jsaw> -nobashmod ???
22:31 < mnemoc> let me read it :(
22:33 < mnemoc> i though i have fixed the bug which makes ./scripts/Create-PkgList returns nothing
22:33 < jsaw> mnemoc: btw, there are some 2.1-rc1 entries in track
22:33 < mnemoc> yes, i just noticed
22:33 < jsaw> mnemoc: maybe they can be cleaned...?
22:33 < mnemoc> not sure
22:34 < mnemoc> after i remove this ugly KDE (installing the ayayel i'm building) i'll get deeper on that
22:34 < jsaw> ayayel *grin*
22:34 < mnemoc> :)
22:35 < jsaw> sounds like some tarzan cry
22:35 < mnemoc> -> Preparing build in src.gettext.ayayel.20060313.233049.19776.haudraufinix
22:35 < mnemoc> *LOL*
22:36 < jsaw> rofl
22:37 < morfoh> :D
22:37 < mnemoc> it's officialy ayayel :)
22:38 < morfoh> :)
22:38 < morfoh> jsaw: I'll package the other stuff from kepplerproject the same way
22:39 < jsaw> anybody around that wants to fix docbook-tools ?
22:39 < mnemoc> it's not that easy
22:39 < mnemoc> it doesn't like openjade
22:39 < morfoh> jsaw: doc* is for dr.'s only :)
22:39 < mnemoc> yeah!
22:39 < jsaw> nono
22:40 < morfoh> :)
22:40 < jsaw> the problem is, we're missing quite some dtd,dsssl,xml,etc. packages
22:40 < morfoh> ack
22:41 < jsaw> the openjade versus jade usage is a simple patch
22:41 < mnemoc> see, your are the only one capable of understanding it's problems
22:41 < morfoh> :)
22:41 < mnemoc> Dr. J
22:42 < jsaw> :p
22:42 < morfoh> sounds like a rapper :)
22:43 < mnemoc> that was the initial idea
22:44 < morfoh> who the f* is Dr.Dre :)
22:44 < mnemoc> Dr. Foh
22:44 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15805 /trunk/package/textproc/docbook-tools/compile-fix.patch:
22:44 < CIA-18> * first step on fixing docbook-tools: patch to use "openjade"
22:44 < CIA-18> (not the "jade") command
22:44 < CIA-18> STILL MISSING: a few dependencies (DTDs and such)
22:44 < morfoh> Dr. Foo
22:44 -!- jsaw is now known as Dr_G
22:45 < Dr_G> :p
22:45 < mnemoc> :D
22:45 < morfoh> YO! G!
22:45 < Dr_G> lol
22:47 < valentin> since when ?
22:48 < valentin> gn8
22:48 < morfoh> gn8 valentin
22:49 < mnemoc> :D
22:49 < mnemoc> gn8 valentin
22:51 < Dr_G> gn8 valentin
23:01 < rxr> re
23:01 < mnemoc> wb rxr
23:01 < rxr> re
23:01 < mnemoc> wb rxr
23:02 < Dr_G> hi rxr
23:02 < Dr_G> hi rxr
23:03 < rxr> hi jsaw and mnemoc
23:05 < mnemoc> how were the meetings?
23:05 < rxr> the apple person let me wait till 18 o'lc
23:06 < rxr> clock and was not that much intresting - to name it politely
23:06 < mnemoc> very kind o_O
23:06 < rxr> I
23:06 < mnemoc> :(
23:06 < rxr> 'll be on cebit tomorow again and go to berlin in the afternoon
23:06 < rxr> susan will come to the office around 13 o'clock
23:06 < mnemoc> ok
23:07 < rxr> maybe you take a deep look into lua to evaulate if it is of interest ... ?
23:08 < mnemoc> Dr_G and morfoh are quite horny with it :)
23:09 < Dr_G> o.O
23:09 < mnemoc> but i feel we should keep config and .conf file like they are and problably compiling them into LUA during Build-Tools... or somehting like that
23:10 < mnemoc> imo the tools may change, but not the package format
23:10 < Dr_G> O.O
23:11 < mnemoc> Dr_G: suggestions to not ugly-fy .desc, .conf, ... files?
23:11 < mnemoc> i guess they could easily be converted into LUA using lex
23:12 < mnemoc> imo their simplicity is one of our strength
23:14 < mnemoc> Dr_G: ?
23:14 < Dr_G> I'd rather use a different shell and patch it for our purposes
23:14 < Dr_G> than translating them jit into lua
23:15 < mnemoc> t2sh?
23:15 < Dr_G> We don't want to end up fixing the shell scripts to match the to-lua lexer...
23:15 < Dr_G> yep, rather t2sh
23:16 < mnemoc> luash :p
23:17 < mnemoc> .oO
23:18 < rxr> n8 all
23:18 < Dr_G> o.O
23:18 < mnemoc> n8 rxr :)
23:19 < Dr_G> gn8 rxr
23:19 < mnemoc> Dr_G: what do you really suggest?
23:19 < Dr_G> somehow, rxr always disappears when we talk about changing the build-system...
23:20 < mnemoc> i'm getting used to that
23:21 < Dr_G> What I suggest:
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> eh, I meant:
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 2. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 3. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> then
23:23 < Dr_G> 4. think about if we can/should keep the format
23:23 < Dr_G> backward compat is definitely not on my agenda (i should add)
23:24 < mnemoc> i'm not thinking is backward compatibility, just that LUA readability is worse than bourne sh
23:24 < mnemoc> and also worse than .desc [FOO] format
23:25 < Dr_G> depends how you organize it
23:25 < Dr_G> a .desc format in lua could look like this:
23:25 < Dr_G> desc {
23:25 < Dr_G> title = "Some title",
23:25 < Dr_G> long = [[ Some long multi-line description ]],
23:25 < Dr_G> }
23:26 < mnemoc> you have at least two more lines than with [FOO]
23:27 < Dr_G> you argument was readability, not file-length :p
23:27 < mnemoc> :)
23:27 < mnemoc> and your argument against a .desc reader function on LUA (returning the table) ?
23:32 < Dr_G> nothing against it, only how it could look like
23:32 < Dr_G> wow
23:32 < Dr_G> gnash plays my father-in-law's company flash intro
23:33 < mnemoc> the function itself or it's usage?
23:34 < Dr_G> pro: changing .desc to lua syntax makes it easy (and fast) to read
23:34 < mnemoc> sure?
23:34 < mnemoc> and migration costs?
23:35 < Dr_G> that's on the con list
23:35 < Dr_G> the .desc files would be *very* easy to reformat.
23:35 < Dr_G> the problem are the .conf files, .in etal and so on
23:35 < mnemoc> 1) why could a simple reader be slower than '
23:36 < mnemoc> loading' a .lua?
23:36 < mnemoc> 2) what about [D] readability?
23:36 < Dr_G> desc {
23:36 < Dr_G> download = {
23:37 < Dr_G> checksum = "234092830498203948",
23:37 < Dr_G> file = "...",
23:37 < Dr_G> url = "..."
23:37 < Dr_G> etc. etc. etc
23:37 < mnemoc> and you think that's cleaner?
23:37 < mnemoc> imagine openoffice .desc.lua file
23:38 < morfoh> hmmm ... I like .desc
23:38 < Dr_G> or alternatively
23:38 < Dr_G> download = {
23:38 < Dr_G> { "1108370264", "ooa680-m1-system.tar.bz2", "..." },
23:38 < Dr_G> { ... },
23:38 < Dr_G> }
23:39 < mnemoc> and again, why is that better than a reader for the simple^3 format we use now?
23:39 * morfoh is becoming sick ... uhhhhh ...
23:39 < Dr_G> morfoh: ?
23:39 < mnemoc> morfoh: of use?
23:39 < mnemoc> us?
23:40 < morfoh> Dr_G: sorry ... no the last "alternativ"
23:40 < morfoh> :)
23:40 < mnemoc> :)
23:40 < morfoh> I enjoy your chat :)
23:40 < Dr_G> why not? what's different to the [D] tag?
23:40 < morfoh> and btw luafilesystem is working :)
23:41 < morfoh> Dr_G: it looks much more cleaner
23:41 < Dr_G> ???
23:41 < Dr_G> how that?
23:41 < morfoh> the current .desc format
23:41 < mnemoc> ack @ morfoh
23:41 < Dr_G> come on, you are joking
23:41 < morfoh> no
23:41 < morfoh> :)
23:42 < morfoh> really ... it must be _human_ readable :)
23:42 < Dr_G> ???
23:42 < Dr_G> harhar
23:42 < morfoh> :)
23:42 < Dr_G> it's not human readable at al
23:42 < Dr_G> all*
23:42 < mnemoc> Dr_G: ask your wife
23:42 < Dr_G> [D] 2099042282 libwpd-0.8.3.tar.gz http://ooo.ximian.com/packages/libwpd/
23:42 < Dr_G> ^^^ ask some non-T2 dev what that means
23:43 < mnemoc> ask a non programer what yours means
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23:43 < mnemoc> hi laj
23:43 < Dr_G> I didn't raise the argument mine is human readable
23:43 < laj> hi
23:43 < morfoh> Dr_G: me neither
23:43 < Dr_G> hi laj
23:43 < mnemoc> [THING] value clean
23:44 < morfoh> hi laj
23:44 < Dr_G> 00:45 < morfoh> really ... it must be _human_ readable :)
23:44 < Dr_G> bias
23:44 < morfoh> Dr_G: comon ... normally you're the one you reads carefully :)
23:44 < morfoh> s/you/who/
23:45 < morfoh> I just said the old format is more readable and that the new one _must_ be human readable :)
23:45 < morfoh> or am I wrong ? :)
23:45 < mnemoc> and i think we should not change .desc format
23:46 < morfoh> ack .. not for that type of alternative
23:46 < mnemoc> and that a .desc reader function is *cheaper* that loading a .lua
23:46 < morfoh> Dr_G: have you done tests ?
23:48 < Dr_G> re
23:48 < Dr_G> yep
23:49 < Dr_G> it's also less memory hungry
23:49 < Dr_G> (strings in lua are fixed)
23:49 < Dr_G> (so, no garbage collector interaction)
23:50 < Dr_G> just a note:
23:50 < mnemoc> LUA .desc reader coded in C wouldn'T have troubles with thatr
23:50 < Dr_G> desc { ... } is effectively a function call, where {} is a table
23:50 < Dr_G> please not C
23:50 < Dr_G> just think about foo-% packages
23:51 < mnemoc> can't a reader do the same?
23:51 < Dr_G> of course it can, but imo more error prone
23:51 < mnemoc> *cheaper* ?
23:52 < Dr_G> ?
23:52 < mnemoc> where?
23:52 < mnemoc> Dr_G: a plain reader is faster than a jit compiler
23:53 < mnemoc> i see it simple enough to be free of weak points
23:55 < Dr_G> even our preload wrapper was simple enough to carry scary C-coding errors (and maybe is still?)
23:56 < mnemoc> a [FIELD] value readers is far more simple and harmless than our preload wrapper
23:56 < Dr_G> but that aside, whatever .desc format we have, the much more interesting question is what we will do with the .conf files
23:57 < mnemoc> i would first port the helpers to lua binaries, on $PATH
23:57 < mnemoc> and then see what left
23:57 < Dr_G> the helpers?
23:58 < mnemoc> and if it's possible make t2sh using the helpers as 'built-in'
23:58 < mnemoc> var_append, hook_add
23:58 < CIA-18> ragnar * r15806 /trunk/package/graphic/pspresent/ (pspresent.conf pspresent.desc): * pspresent: update to 1.3 and fix makefile for lib64 and X11 instead X11R6
23:58 < Dr_G> how that? These cannot be external.
23:58 < mnemoc> why not? ,-)
23:59 < Dr_G> unless you want to have even more environment variables
23:59 < Dr_G> how can you make var_append an external program?
23:59 < mnemoc> var_append is just a list handler
--- Log closed Tue Mar 14 00:00:11 2006
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08:42 < valentin> moin
08:42 < owl> hi valentin
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08:47 < morfoh> moin
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11:37 -!- Netsplit over, joins: sepp, valentin
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11:56 < morfoh> re
11:57 < valentin> lol: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/70754
11:58 < valentin> ^- ubuntu stores the root passwd in a world-readable PLAINTEXT file :)
11:59 < valentin> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/shadow/+bug/34606
11:59 < valentin> i would not call that one just a "bug"
12:05 < morfoh> valentin: indeed... this is by far the most user friendly linux... no headaches for getting root access :D
12:06 < valentin> they wanted to create a linux that feels like windows. i think they almost completed that goal
12:07 < morfoh> ack
12:15 < morfoh> the advice to upgrade to the latest development version of the affected packages is quite nice too
12:16 < morfoh> perhaps they should start a new "subproject" called "cowbuntu"
12:17 < morfoh> ok ... enough flaming.
12:19 < valentin> :)
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13:56 < LMJ_at_work> hello guys ;)
14:05 < LMJ_at_work> I'm not sure, but it's "initrd" who load everything after the BIOS and make ":-)" or ":-(" ?
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14:09 < LMJ2> oups, sorry back ;)
14:20 -!- sparc-kly [n=mubex@64.237.241.51] has joined #t2
14:33 < LMJ2> ping rxr_ or sepp jsaw ?
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14:36 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.1.1 and 2.2.0-epsilon RELEASED! | The System Development Environment (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | Say hello and do not hesitate to ask us any questions that you may have. | http://www.rafb.net/paste/
14:36 -!- Topic set by mnemoc [] [Sat Mar 11 22:55:45 2006]
14:36 [Users #t2]
14:36 [@ChanServ] [ idealm] [ LMJ2 ] [ rxr ] [ sparc-kly ] [ _Ragnar_]
14:36 [ Baldzius] [ jsaw ] [ morfoh] [ rxr_] [ sparc-kly_]
14:36 [ CIA-18 ] [ LMJ ] [ owl ] [ sepp] [ valentin ]
14:36 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 16 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
14:36 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 19:15:33 2004
14:36 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
14:37 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 36 secs
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14:40 < mtr> moin
14:41 < jsaw> LMJ2: :-) etal is after pivot_root (which means in-system)
14:44 < LMJ2> i don't know etal nor pivot_root, they are managing the whole booting process ?
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14:59 < jsaw> LMJ2: pivot_root is similiar to "chroot", meaning, the boot process is transferred to the host-system after initrd
15:00 < LMJ2> so boot -> grub -> initrd -> pivot_root ?
15:01 < jsaw> "etal" = "et al." = and others
15:02 < jsaw> LMJ2: boot-> grub -> kernel+initrd -> start init process (from initrd) -> (... mount root device ...) -> pivot_root (start init of root device)
15:07 < LMJ2> thanks ;)
15:12 < jsaw> welcome :)
15:28 < LMJ2> gtg ;)
15:28 < LMJ2> see you at home mate
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15:57 < LMJ> moin moin ;)
15:59 < rxr> re
16:02 < rxr> cu later
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18:19 < mnemoc> moin!
18:25 < sepp> moin mnemoc :)
18:29 < mnemoc> hi sepp :)
18:29 < mnemoc> i survived my journey from hannover to berlin :p
18:29 < sepp> survived?
18:30 < morfoh> hi mnemoc ... good to hear that! :)
18:30 < mnemoc> sepp: i didn't die or get lost
18:30 < mnemoc> morfoh: hi :)
18:31 < morfoh> :)
18:32 < sepp> you took a post carriage and feared bandits ?
18:32 < morfoh> sepp: I think he was even the horse :)
18:33 < sepp> hehe
18:34 < sepp> what was supposed to read PCI_SKIP_MODULES in /etc/conf/pci ?
18:34 < mnemoc> o_O
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19:06 < morfoh> holy shit ... jsaw you were _absolutely_ right. packaging lua 3rd. party stuff is a pain :/
19:08 < mnemoc> what has to be done?
19:09 < morfoh> mnemoc: the makefiles and configs are mostly crap
19:10 < mnemoc> :(
19:10 < morfoh> I disabled the gcc config and injected the needed stuff via makeopt and so on
19:11 < morfoh> but I guess if I cleanup my test package it will be looking nicer
19:14 < morfoh> and it looks much more sane and afiacs it's now linked properly
19:14 < morfoh> at least nearly :|
19:15 < mnemoc> have anyone seen axion reciently?
19:16 < morfoh> nope
19:17 < mnemoc> i fear we lost our 'american' mirror :(
19:17 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_ will have to provide one
19:19 < morfoh> mnemoc: ack ... I heard sth. like that :)
19:22 < _Ragnar_> O_O
19:24 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: did your heard the same?
19:24 < _Ragnar_> I only know it's down
19:26 < mnemoc> i mean about _Ragnar_'s new mirror
19:28 < _Ragnar_> uhm :p I don't have that kinda bandwidth
19:30 < morfoh> mnemoc: have you seen my query ?
19:30 < mnemoc> morfoh: i guess i would have seen it if you identify yourself to god nickserv
19:30 < morfoh> yeah ... I wasn't
19:30 < mnemoc> :)
19:31 < mnemoc> get keepnick.pl
19:32 * mnemoc wonders about packaging http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/en/instructions/
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19:38 < jsaw> sepp: PCI_SKIP_MODULES used to be read by rockplug
19:40 < mnemoc> PCI_SKIP_MODULES works perfectly on t2 2.1
19:40 < mnemoc> but the ISA stuff is borked on stone
19:40 < sepp> thanks - is there a skip feature for trunk?
19:41 < mnemoc> hotplug++ ...
19:44 < sepp> is this a yes or a no? :)
19:45 < jsaw> sepp: not in that way. I tried the documented "blacklist" in modprobe.conf, but something didn't work out
19:45 < jsaw> alias module-name off
19:46 < jsaw> works, but, modprobe complains about not being able to find the module "off"
19:46 < mnemoc> jsaw: did you see my messages yesterday night?
19:47 < jsaw> mnemoc: yes :)
19:47 < jsaw> bias (bringing daughter to bed)
19:48 < mnemoc> :)
20:12 < jsaw> re
20:12 < jsaw> mnemoc: what's AJAX?
20:13 < jsaw> ah, wikipedia...
20:17 < mnemoc> javascript to get XML from teh server an render the content dinamicly without actually refreshing the page
20:18 < jsaw> xavante?
20:19 < morfoh> mnemoc: I fixed luaexpat :)
20:20 < morfoh> fucking sh*t it wasn't 5.1 aware
20:20 < jsaw> morfoh: please check that it links dynamically to expat
20:21 < morfoh> jsaw: it is ;)
20:21 < morfoh> jsaw: I had to inject -lexpat
20:21 < jsaw> ah right, that was it
20:22 < jsaw> (long time ago I tested it, and, obviously didn't understand the simple solution...)
20:22 < morfoh> jsaw: I'll cleanup my package and commit the tiny beast
20:22 < morfoh> my little test prog works so far
20:23 < morfoh> this parser can be quite handy :)
20:23 < jsaw> yep, expat is nice
20:23 < mnemoc> with lua we could even use fefe's
20:23 < mnemoc> LUGRA_ItaloRamirez: 's
20:23 < mnemoc> LUGRA_ItaloRamirez: err
20:26 < morfoh> jsaw: but I changed some parts of the lua package too
20:27 < morfoh> I've created a lua.conf.in for $myLIBS $myCFLAGS and some other
20:27 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15799 /trunk/package/base/runit/rockify.patch: * s/X11R6/X11/ in /etc/runit/2
20:28 < jsaw> lua.conf.in?
20:28 < morfoh> perhaps this isn't right, I just wanted to "inherit" some stuff from lua package
20:29 < jsaw> oh, that u mean
20:29 < morfoh> for 3rd. party stuff
20:29 < jsaw> morfoh: better use "lua-conf.in", that's what most other packages use in such a case
20:30 < morfoh> jsaw: ok
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20:53 < CIA-18> chris * r15800 /trunk/package/develop/lua/ (lua-conf.in lua.conf lua.pc):
20:53 < CIA-18> * removed -llua -lm from lua.pc template
20:53 < CIA-18> * added -llua -lm to $myLIBS
20:53 < CIA-18> * added lua-conf.in for sharing some variables with lua 3rd. party packages
20:53 < CIA-18> * added line to include lua-conf.in and cleaned up the conf file
20:57 < jsaw> morfoh: pkgprefix ver lua
20:57 < jsaw> lua_pkg_ver=$( pkgprefix ver lua )
20:57 < morfoh> jsaw: thanks :)
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21:02 < morfoh> wb mnemoc
21:02 < mnemoc> uhm
21:02 < mnemoc> my F* shell server has network troubles again
21:07 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p213.54.141.198.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
21:10 < mnemoc> wb sepp
21:15 < mnemoc> damn it's cold
21:15 < jsaw> hehe
21:16 < mnemoc> :)
21:16 < jsaw> mnemoc: now you know what we mean when talking about "cold"
21:16 < mnemoc> *but* it's not yet as cold as been on a cold damn at my former office sit there the whole day
21:17 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15801 /trunk/package/lua/lua-pcre/ (lrexlib-conf.in string.lua):
21:17 < CIA-18> * move "string.lua" out of lrexlib-conf.in into its own file
21:17 < CIA-18> and use a sed to build it for lua-pcre and lua-rx
21:17 < jsaw> *g*
21:21 < CIA-18> chris * r15802 /trunk/package/develop/lua/lua-conf.in: * fixed lua-conf.in to use pkgprefix to get the lua version
21:21 < morfoh> *g*
21:27 < CIA-18> chris * r15803 /trunk/package/lua/luaexpat/ (6 files): * added luaexpat (1.0.1)
21:27 < morfoh> jsaw: ^ for that small lib
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21:28 < morfoh> 5 files for getting one .so
21:30 < morfoh> jsaw: http://www.keplerproject.org/luaexpat/examples.html <-- examples are working
22:17 < jsaw> re
22:17 < morfoh> wb jsaw
22:17 < jsaw> morfoh: hmm, probably it wouldn't have been a problem to make one patch, but whatever
22:21 < morfoh> jsaw: I like to split the patches
22:21 < jsaw> ic
22:21 < jsaw> morfoh: do you really need the no-config.patch ?
22:21 < morfoh> yes
22:22 < jsaw> == 03/13/06 23:23:41 =[9]=> Aborted building package luaexpat.
22:22 < jsaw> hmmm
22:22 < morfoh> uhm ?
22:22 < jsaw> fPIC missing
22:22 < jsaw> (on x86-64)
22:22 < morfoh> ic
22:22 < morfoh> add it :p
22:23 < morfoh> jsaw: do you have much against the no-config-patch ?
22:24 < morfoh> I think this way we're a bit more flexible
22:24 < morfoh> than using sed
22:24 < jsaw> yes: with the makefile.patch, config is not touched
22:25 < morfoh> ah! ok ..
22:25 < morfoh> remove it
22:25 < jsaw> at it :)
22:25 < morfoh> :)
22:28 < mnemoc> jsaw: what do you think about branching the trunk to add a the bootstraping layer on our tools? :)
22:28 < mnemoc> .oO( on your spare time of course )o
22:28 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15804 /trunk/package/lua/luaexpat/ (luaexpat.conf no-config.patch):
22:28 < CIA-18> * no-config.patch not needed as config file not touched due to the
22:28 < CIA-18> makefile.patch
22:28 < CIA-18> * fPIC is needed
22:29 < jsaw> mnemoc: see comment on bug #101 (iirc)
22:30 < mnemoc> bug #101??? wtf is that?
22:30 < jsaw> http://trac.t2-project.org/ticket/101
22:30 < morfoh> 2.2.0-alpha-x86-athlon-mnemosyne:
22:30 < morfoh> [5] xorg/xf86-video-i810
22:30 < mnemoc> *g*
22:30 < morfoh> 624 builds total, 369 completed fine, 1 with errors.
22:30 < morfoh> oops
22:30 < morfoh> ;)
22:31 < jsaw> mnemoc: just yesterday...
22:31 < mnemoc> jsaw: -nobashmod ?
22:31 < jsaw> -nobashmod ???
22:31 < mnemoc> let me read it :(
22:33 < mnemoc> i though i have fixed the bug which makes ./scripts/Create-PkgList returns nothing
22:33 < jsaw> mnemoc: btw, there are some 2.1-rc1 entries in track
22:33 < mnemoc> yes, i just noticed
22:33 < jsaw> mnemoc: maybe they can be cleaned...?
22:33 < mnemoc> not sure
22:34 < mnemoc> after i remove this ugly KDE (installing the ayayel i'm building) i'll get deeper on that
22:34 < jsaw> ayayel *grin*
22:34 < mnemoc> :)
22:35 < jsaw> sounds like some tarzan cry
22:35 < mnemoc> -> Preparing build in src.gettext.ayayel.20060313.233049.19776.haudraufinix
22:35 < mnemoc> *LOL*
22:36 < jsaw> rofl
22:37 < morfoh> :D
22:37 < mnemoc> it's officialy ayayel :)
22:38 < morfoh> :)
22:38 < morfoh> jsaw: I'll package the other stuff from kepplerproject the same way
22:39 < jsaw> anybody around that wants to fix docbook-tools ?
22:39 < mnemoc> it's not that easy
22:39 < mnemoc> it doesn't like openjade
22:39 < morfoh> jsaw: doc* is for dr.'s only :)
22:39 < mnemoc> yeah!
22:39 < jsaw> nono
22:40 < morfoh> :)
22:40 < jsaw> the problem is, we're missing quite some dtd,dsssl,xml,etc. packages
22:40 < morfoh> ack
22:41 < jsaw> the openjade versus jade usage is a simple patch
22:41 < mnemoc> see, your are the only one capable of understanding it's problems
22:41 < morfoh> :)
22:41 < mnemoc> Dr. J
22:42 < jsaw> :p
22:42 < morfoh> sounds like a rapper :)
22:43 < mnemoc> that was the initial idea
22:44 < morfoh> who the f* is Dr.Dre :)
22:44 < mnemoc> Dr. Foh
22:44 < CIA-18> jsaw * r15805 /trunk/package/textproc/docbook-tools/compile-fix.patch:
22:44 < CIA-18> * first step on fixing docbook-tools: patch to use "openjade"
22:44 < CIA-18> (not the "jade") command
22:44 < CIA-18> STILL MISSING: a few dependencies (DTDs and such)
22:44 < morfoh> Dr. Foo
22:44 -!- jsaw is now known as Dr_G
22:45 < Dr_G> :p
22:45 < mnemoc> :D
22:45 < morfoh> YO! G!
22:45 < Dr_G> lol
22:47 < valentin> since when ?
22:48 < valentin> gn8
22:48 < morfoh> gn8 valentin
22:49 < mnemoc> :D
22:49 < mnemoc> gn8 valentin
22:51 < Dr_G> gn8 valentin
23:01 < rxr> re
23:01 < mnemoc> wb rxr
23:01 < rxr> re
23:01 < mnemoc> wb rxr
23:02 < Dr_G> hi rxr
23:02 < Dr_G> hi rxr
23:03 < rxr> hi jsaw and mnemoc
23:05 < mnemoc> how were the meetings?
23:05 < rxr> the apple person let me wait till 18 o'lc
23:06 < rxr> clock and was not that much intresting - to name it politely
23:06 < mnemoc> very kind o_O
23:06 < rxr> I
23:06 < mnemoc> :(
23:06 < rxr> 'll be on cebit tomorow again and go to berlin in the afternoon
23:06 < rxr> susan will come to the office around 13 o'clock
23:06 < mnemoc> ok
23:07 < rxr> maybe you take a deep look into lua to evaulate if it is of interest ... ?
23:08 < mnemoc> Dr_G and morfoh are quite horny with it :)
23:09 < Dr_G> o.O
23:09 < mnemoc> but i feel we should keep config and .conf file like they are and problably compiling them into LUA during Build-Tools... or somehting like that
23:10 < mnemoc> imo the tools may change, but not the package format
23:10 < Dr_G> O.O
23:11 < mnemoc> Dr_G: suggestions to not ugly-fy .desc, .conf, ... files?
23:11 < mnemoc> i guess they could easily be converted into LUA using lex
23:12 < mnemoc> imo their simplicity is one of our strength
23:14 < mnemoc> Dr_G: ?
23:14 < Dr_G> I'd rather use a different shell and patch it for our purposes
23:14 < Dr_G> than translating them jit into lua
23:15 < mnemoc> t2sh?
23:15 < Dr_G> We don't want to end up fixing the shell scripts to match the to-lua lexer...
23:15 < Dr_G> yep, rather t2sh
23:16 < mnemoc> luash :p
23:17 < mnemoc> .oO
23:18 < rxr> n8 all
23:18 < Dr_G> o.O
23:18 < mnemoc> n8 rxr :)
23:19 < Dr_G> gn8 rxr
23:19 < mnemoc> Dr_G: what do you really suggest?
23:19 < Dr_G> somehow, rxr always disappears when we talk about changing the build-system...
23:20 < mnemoc> i'm getting used to that
23:21 < Dr_G> What I suggest:
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> eh, I meant:
23:22 < Dr_G> 1. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 2. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> 3. decide what language we will use in the future
23:22 < Dr_G> then
23:23 < Dr_G> 4. think about if we can/should keep the format
23:23 < Dr_G> backward compat is definitely not on my agenda (i should add)
23:24 < mnemoc> i'm not thinking is backward compatibility, just that LUA readability is worse than bourne sh
23:24 < mnemoc> and also worse than .desc [FOO] format
23:25 < Dr_G> depends how you organize it
23:25 < Dr_G> a .desc format in lua could look like this:
23:25 < Dr_G> desc {
23:25 < Dr_G> title = "Some title",
23:25 < Dr_G> long = [[ Some long multi-line description ]],
23:25 < Dr_G> }
23:26 < mnemoc> you have at least two more lines than with [FOO]
23:27 < Dr_G> you argument was readability, not file-length :p
23:27 < mnemoc> :)
23:27 < mnemoc> and your argument against a .desc reader function on LUA (returning the table) ?
23:32 < Dr_G> nothing against it, only how it could look like
23:32 < Dr_G> wow
23:32 < Dr_G> gnash plays my father-in-law's company flash intro
23:33 < mnemoc> the function itself or it's usage?
23:34 < Dr_G> pro: changing .desc to lua syntax makes it easy (and fast) to read
23:34 < mnemoc> sure?
23:34 < mnemoc> and migration costs?
23:35 < Dr_G> that's on the con list
23:35 < Dr_G> the .desc files would be *very* easy to reformat.
23:35 < Dr_G> the problem are the .conf files, .in etal and so on
23:35 < mnemoc> 1) why could a simple reader be slower than '
23:36 < mnemoc> loading' a .lua?
23:36 < mnemoc> 2) what about [D] readability?
23:36 < Dr_G> desc {
23:36 < Dr_G> download = {
23:37 < Dr_G> checksum = "234092830498203948",
23:37 < Dr_G> file = "...",
23:37 < Dr_G> url = "..."
23:37 < Dr_G> etc. etc. etc
23:37 < mnemoc> and you think that's cleaner?
23:37 < mnemoc> imagine openoffice .desc.lua file
23:38 < morfoh> hmmm ... I like .desc
23:38 < Dr_G> or alternatively
23:38 < Dr_G> download = {
23:38 < Dr_G> { "1108370264", "ooa680-m1-system.tar.bz2", "..." },
23:38 < Dr_G> { ... },
23:38 < Dr_G> }
23:39 < mnemoc> and again, why is that better than a reader for the simple^3 format we use now?
23:39 * morfoh is becoming sick ... uhhhhh ...
23:39 < Dr_G> morfoh: ?
23:39 < mnemoc> morfoh: of use?
23:39 < mnemoc> us?
23:40 < morfoh> Dr_G: sorry ... no the last "alternativ"
23:40 < morfoh> :)
23:40 < mnemoc> :)
23:40 < morfoh> I enjoy your chat :)
23:40 < Dr_G> why not? what's different to the [D] tag?
23:40 < morfoh> and btw luafilesystem is working :)
23:41 < morfoh> Dr_G: it looks much more cleaner
23:41 < Dr_G> ???
23:41 < Dr_G> how that?
23:41 < morfoh> the current .desc format
23:41 < mnemoc> ack @ morfoh
23:41 < Dr_G> come on, you are joking
23:41 < morfoh> no
23:41 < morfoh> :)
23:42 < morfoh> really ... it must be _human_ readable :)
23:42 < Dr_G> ???
23:42 < Dr_G> harhar
23:42 < morfoh> :)
23:42 < Dr_G> it's not human readable at al
23:42 < Dr_G> all*
23:42 < mnemoc> Dr_G: ask your wife
23:42 < Dr_G> [D] 2099042282 libwpd-0.8.3.tar.gz http://ooo.ximian.com/packages/libwpd/
23:42 < Dr_G> ^^^ ask some non-T2 dev what that means
23:43 < mnemoc> ask a non programer what yours means
23:43 -!- laj [n=laj@0x503e3922.hsnxx4.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #t2
23:43 < mnemoc> hi laj
23:43 < Dr_G> I didn't raise the argument mine is human readable
23:43 < laj> hi
23:43 < morfoh> Dr_G: me neither
23:43 < Dr_G> hi laj
23:43 < mnemoc> [THING] value clean
23:44 < morfoh> hi laj
23:44 < Dr_G> 00:45 < morfoh> really ... it must be _human_ readable :)
23:44 < Dr_G> bias
23:44 < morfoh> Dr_G: comon ... normally you're the one you reads carefully :)
23:44 < morfoh> s/you/who/
23:45 < morfoh> I just said the old format is more readable and that the new one _must_ be human readable :)
23:45 < morfoh> or am I wrong ? :)
23:45 < mnemoc> and i think we should not change .desc format
23:46 < morfoh> ack .. not for that type of alternative
23:46 < mnemoc> and that a .desc reader function is *cheaper* that loading a .lua
23:46 < morfoh> Dr_G: have you done tests ?
23:48 < Dr_G> re
23:48 < Dr_G> yep
23:49 < Dr_G> it's also less memory hungry
23:49 < Dr_G> (strings in lua are fixed)
23:49 < Dr_G> (so, no garbage collector interaction)
23:50 < Dr_G> just a note:
23:50 < mnemoc> LUA .desc reader coded in C wouldn'T have troubles with thatr
23:50 < Dr_G> desc { ... } is effectively a function call, where {} is a table
23:50 < Dr_G> please not C
23:50 < Dr_G> just think about foo-% packages
23:51 < mnemoc> can't a reader do the same?
23:51 < Dr_G> of course it can, but imo more error prone
23:51 < mnemoc> *cheaper* ?
23:52 < Dr_G> ?
23:52 < mnemoc> where?
23:52 < mnemoc> Dr_G: a plain reader is faster than a jit compiler
23:53 < mnemoc> i see it simple enough to be free of weak points
23:55 < Dr_G> even our preload wrapper was simple enough to carry scary C-coding errors (and maybe is still?)
23:56 < mnemoc> a [FIELD] value readers is far more simple and harmless than our preload wrapper
23:56 < Dr_G> but that aside, whatever .desc format we have, the much more interesting question is what we will do with the .conf files
23:57 < mnemoc> i would first port the helpers to lua binaries, on $PATH
23:57 < mnemoc> and then see what left
23:57 < Dr_G> the helpers?
23:58 < mnemoc> and if it's possible make t2sh using the helpers as 'built-in'
23:58 < mnemoc> var_append, hook_add
23:58 < CIA-18> ragnar * r15806 /trunk/package/graphic/pspresent/ (pspresent.conf pspresent.desc): * pspresent: update to 1.3 and fix makefile for lib64 and X11 instead X11R6
23:58 < Dr_G> how that? These cannot be external.
23:58 < mnemoc> why not? ,-)
23:59 < Dr_G> unless you want to have even more environment variables
23:59 < Dr_G> how can you make var_append an external program?
23:59 < mnemoc> var_append is just a list handler
--- Log closed Tue Mar 14 00:00:11 2006