--- Log opened Thu May 25 00:00:52 2006
01:11 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.46.91] has joined #t2
03:08 -!- mtr_ [n=Michael@pD9E115AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #t2
03:24 -!- mtr [n=Michael@pD9E11F49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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06:40 -!- Lucifer_arma [n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #t2
06:40 < Lucifer_arma> hello
06:52 < Lucifer_arma> so what's the difference now between t2 and ROCK?
07:01 < valentin> svn info https://svn.rocklinux.net/rock-linux/trunk | grep Revision
07:01 < valentin> svn info http://www.rocklinux.net/svn/rock-linux/ | grep Revision
07:01 < valentin> svn info https://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk | grep Revision
07:02 < valentin> forget that middle line
07:02 < valentin> or the first one
07:02 < Lucifer_arma> I was actually looking for an answer parseable by humans :)
07:02 < valentin> i know, but i have to catch a train in some minutes :(
07:02 < Lucifer_arma> it's ok, I'll be beating around a bit, most likely
07:03 < valentin> in short, t2 has been moving faster forward than rock
07:03 < Lucifer_arma> :) but to where? I know, you have to catch a train...
07:03 < valentin> within the next hour some more people here might wake up
07:04 < valentin> cu :(
07:04 < Lucifer_arma> have fun
07:33 < fist_o_rage> moin moin
07:41 < sepp> moin :)
07:44 < fist_o_rage> hi sepp ;)
07:46 < sepp> hi karasz (with strange nick)
07:55 < fist_o_rage> well sepp hopefully today i will revert to the old nick
07:55 < fist_o_rage> if everything goes smoothly
08:00 < sepp> :)
08:06 < Lucifer_arma> so what's the difference now between t2 and ROCK?
08:07 < fist_o_rage> Lucifer_arma: i guess that it is more activity around T2 then Rock
08:07 < fist_o_rage> also iirc T2 is way more up to date then Rock
08:07 < fist_o_rage> for subtile techology differences you wil have to wait for a developer to show up.
08:09 < Lucifer_arma> hmm, I'm mostly interested in community, actually.
08:09 < Lucifer_arma> and exactly what "more up to date" means. Lots of programs I don't need the latest versions for, and some distributions are so up to date they're unstable when I need them not to be
08:10 < Lucifer_arma> obviously t2 has more developers with commit access. :)
08:10 < fist_o_rage> well that is why there are 2 branches
08:10 < fist_o_rage> a stable and a trunk
08:11 < fist_o_rage> yes, i guess there are more developers with commit access then on Rock, although i am not very familiar with Rock.
08:13 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.46.91] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
08:13 < Lucifer_arma> I'll probably be around another hour or so, I am interested in some subtle technology differences too :)
08:14 < fist_o_rage> Lucifer_arma: if i were you i wouldn't bet on the next hour
08:14 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.46.91] has joined #t2
08:15 < fist_o_rage> but who knows, maybe you'll get lucky ;)
08:15 < Lucifer_arma> heh, ok. not betting, just my normal vampiric hours
08:16 < fist_o_rage> US?
08:16 < Lucifer_arma> yeah, Texas
08:20 < fist_o_rage> nowdays T2 is mostly european so it will be more `vampiric hours` for you :)
08:20 < Lucifer_arma> heh. My main project is mostly european too. this isn't a problem for me. :)
08:21 < fist_o_rage> good
08:21 < fist_o_rage> maybe you can look around on T2 page?
08:21 < fist_o_rage> there are some docus over there
08:22 < Lucifer_arma> I looked pretty thoroughly. I have to admit, the website was more corporatespeak than I was willing to read
08:23 < fist_o_rage> corporate? T2?
08:23 < Lucifer_arma> doubletalk is doubletalk.
08:23 < Lucifer_arma> sorry.
08:24 < Lucifer_arma> I don't mean to sound mean, if I'm coming off that way. I'm just burned out on websites that give as little information as possible, whether it's intentional or not.
08:24 < fist_o_rage> hmmm...., can you describe doubletalk? as you noticed english is not my mothertongue...
08:24 < Lucifer_arma> ever read IBM's english website?
08:25 < fist_o_rage> is it readable? ;)
08:25 < Lucifer_arma> sure, if you understand corporatespeak.
08:25 < fist_o_rage> i allways get lost on it.
08:25 < Lucifer_arma> me too. It wears me out.
08:25 < fist_o_rage> even IBM guys get lost on it...
08:25 < Lucifer_arma> haha
08:26 < fist_o_rage> there is a list of bookmarks that is used inside IBM (at least here) to get the info they need :D
08:26 < fist_o_rage> not just once i got the answer...`Sorry I don't have THAT bookmark....`
08:27 < fist_o_rage> well i know that it is not an excuse, but the site does not look that scarse intentionaly
08:28 < fist_o_rage> just that nobody has the time to work on it, guys tend to concentrate more on development issues.
08:28 < Lucifer_arma> I know. I'm not trying to be accusing or anything.
08:28 < Lucifer_arma> I'm a big fan of community-generated content because it takes you a bit farther, although not always all the way.
08:28 < fist_o_rage> anyway there is a new site in construction, if i am not mistakeing
08:29 < Lucifer_arma> I guess what I'm wanting to know is how the factoring of the shell scripts has gone. I've been fooling with ROCK for a couple of days, and poking around the source,
08:29 < fist_o_rage> Lucifer_arma: i guess that contributions to content arte more than wellcommd ;)
08:30 < fist_o_rage> factoring?
08:30 < Lucifer_arma> and I can see that if the shell scripts were factored a certain way, I'd feel it was superior to ROCK and worth looking at t2 on its own
08:30 < Lucifer_arma> factoring, umm, taking out common bits of code and isolating them.
08:30 < Lucifer_arma> it's like a rewrite, only not from scratch, you just rearrange to suit a better design.
08:30 < fist_o_rage> something like making it modular?
08:31 < Lucifer_arma> yeah. :) but I've seen modular, and I've seen *modular*.
08:31 < Lucifer_arma> modular is borderline doubletalk these days, sorry.
08:31 < fist_o_rage> true.
08:31 < fist_o_rage> ah now i remembered
08:31 < fist_o_rage> T2 has a more wider arch suport that Rock
08:32 < Lucifer_arma> that is true, but not important to me. :)
08:32 < Lucifer_arma> that's clearly posted on the website. :)
08:32 < fist_o_rage> but then again, I am not the person you should talk to
08:32 < fist_o_rage> i am just an user
08:32 < fist_o_rage> kind off
08:32 < fist_o_rage> -f
08:32 < Lucifer_arma> well, the other things I'm looking at are things like what general direction it's gone.
08:33 < Lucifer_arma> I've seen where ROCK is right now, and to some extent I like it, but I also see them kinda teetering with the possibility of collapsing (although they won't say so)
08:33 < Lucifer_arma> t2 looks like a viable project on its own, I'd like to see how it conducts itself as a project.
08:33 < sepp> there are many changes e.g. with trunk you need no bootdisk target, 3rd party kernel mods are build within linux* ...
08:34 < Lucifer_arma> is there a livecd target or equivalent?
08:34 < Lucifer_arma> not terribly important, I'll admit.
08:34 < sepp> yup
08:35 < Lucifer_arma> I'm looking to put a computer in my car. I'm also looking to build a custom distribution that gives a person everything they need to run a high quality armagetron advanced server.
08:35 < sepp> there is also a livecd iso iirc
08:35 < Lucifer_arma> the computer in my car, I hope to result in a distribution other people can use to put computers in their cars.
08:36 < Lucifer_arma> so I'm definitely looking at customizing the distribution, possibly beyond just picking packages.
08:36 < Lucifer_arma> The game server would need a good UI for the 'idiot' user. If it doesn't have one now, I'd be looking at building it, most likely with pyQt
08:36 < sepp> you could look at the embedded target
08:37 < sepp> for a car computer
08:37 < Lucifer_arma> I could, but it's not terribly important, I cn figure out what I'll actually do. The issue for me is how easy it is to customize the installer, the resulting boot system (such as putting in my own in place of sysV),
08:37 < sepp> although i do not know what you do with a computer in a car
08:38 < Lucifer_arma> and how receptive t2 would be to my changes. I like my customizations to be generalized and incorporated into the base project.
08:38 < Lucifer_arma> I do't like sitting on them myself.
08:38 < sepp> there is already runit support ...
08:39 < Lucifer_arma> runit = ?
08:39 < Lucifer_arma> I read that as r-unit....hmmm....
08:39 < sepp> http://smarden.org/runit/index.html
08:39 < sepp> run-it
08:40 < Lucifer_arma> ok, forget about offering me options. That's giving a dog a bone when he really wants a steak.
08:40 < Lucifer_arma> how easy is it for me to make changes myself, and how receptive is the project to receiving them?
08:41 < Lucifer_arma> assume that I'll work with you guys as much as possible, as closely as you're willing
08:41 < Lucifer_arma> also understand that for various reasons I may find myself making a serious personal commitment, and I'm trying to make the best decision I can
08:42 < sepp> i wanted to point out that there is already a different init program in t2
08:42 < Lucifer_arma> how easy is it to change that out?
08:42 < Lucifer_arma> basically, has that changed from ROCK is all that matters, because in ROCK it's just a matter of writing the program, making a package, and installing it
08:43 < Lucifer_arma> for that matter, I think that's all that's needed for debian, unless debian has thrown superfluous dependencies on their own sysV package
08:43 < sepp> moment
08:52 < sepp> i would say look at the runit package to get a impression how easy it is and patches/improvements are welcome
08:54 -!- Tauras [n=tauras@mail.2xsoftware.com] has joined #t2
08:54 < Tauras> hello
08:54 < sepp> hi Tauras
08:55 < fist_o_rage> hello Tauras
08:55 < Tauras> just wondering, if someone commented on my query yesterday :) I missed it
08:56 < Tauras> is there irc logs online?
08:56 < sepp> http://t2-project.org/irclogs/
08:56 < fist_o_rage> http://dl.exactcode.de/irclogs/t2/
09:03 < Tauras> thanks :)
09:04 < Lucifer_arma> graphical installer? :) I'm interested in writing one, in fact, if there isn't one, I'll be writing one for somebody, and it'll probably be pyqt-based.
09:05 < Lucifer_arma> is there one? if not, is there opposition to pyqt here?
09:06 < Lucifer_arma> I really don't mean to sound so abrupt, sorry if I'm coming off that way, I've just spent the last two days fooling with ROCK, and most of what I want to know about t2 I already know from that.
09:07 < Lucifer_arma> and I'm not sure how to ask for what I really want to know. :/
09:08 < sepp> there is no graphical installer
09:09 < Lucifer_arma> I got the impression from fist_o_rage that the crazy shell apps (stone, mine, etc) have been turned into modular things.
09:09 < Lucifer_arma> is that true? Did they stay shell scripts? If not, what did they get changed to?
09:10 < Lucifer_arma> and is there opposition to python in this area?
09:12 < fist_o_rage> Lucifer_arma: i don't remember saying that mine or stone turned modular, or left the shell stage
09:13 < Lucifer_arma> I got the impression. :) you didn't say it, maybe I got a bad impression.
09:13 < fist_o_rage> if i gave that impression, well i guess that my english is the culprit :(
09:13 < Lucifer_arma> nah, don't blame your english. At a guess I'd say most of the people I communicate with don't have native english either, relax.
09:14 < Lucifer_arma> the "arma" part of my name is there because Lucifer was already taken, and it's from Armagetron Advanced, which is my main open source project nowadays. Pretty much the only one I work on outside professional work.
09:14 < Lucifer_arma> it's mostly a european project, many of the developers are german, yadayada.
09:14 < Tauras> well as I understood, the whole idea of t2 is to stay away from python
09:15 < Lucifer_arma> haha. That would be a dealbreaker.... :)
09:15 < sepp> armagetronad.net/ ?
09:15 < Lucifer_arma> tht's the one
09:15 < fist_o_rage> i don't think that the ideea of T2 is to stay away from anything
09:15 < fist_o_rage> T2 imho is beyond the development language it uses...
09:16 < Lucifer_arma> I guess we don't really have a single lead developer, just several leaders, we recently declared a triumvirate to deal with growth
09:17 < Tauras> fist_o_rage: there are lots of advanced projects using python... I selected t2 because of bash scripting :)
09:18 < Lucifer_arma> I don't mind bash scripting, really, and I don't mind if my code is relegated to an extensions module or somesuch.
09:18 < Lucifer_arma> What I mind is it being rejected outright with no possibility of that ever changing. :) Which is the cse if there's a "no python" rule.
09:18 < Tauras> I would bet there is such rule :)
09:19 < Tauras> but u can create your own target using pyqt installer
09:20 < CIA-2> rene * r17610 /trunk/package/ (9 files in 9 dirs): * removed obsolete linux24benh_{pre,post} files (package is long gone)
09:20 < Tauras> SDE itself should not migrate to other dev languages
09:21 < Lucifer_arma> SDE = ?
09:21 < Lucifer_arma> is it what used to be stone?
09:21 < fist_o_rage> Lucifer_arma: i don't know of any `no` rule regarding any development language.
09:21 < fist_o_rage> SDE System Development Environment
09:21 < fist_o_rage> Tauras: i like bash too
09:22 < fist_o_rage> but thta doesn't change anything
09:23 < fist_o_rage> if T2 would use Haskel, i wouldn't mind (just that i have to learn it) the packaging ideea, and the system ideea as a whole is what it is important.
09:23 < Lucifer_arma> man, I'd mind. Have you tried to satisfy a haskel dependency?
09:24 < fist_o_rage> Lucifer_arma: that was just an example, actually i didn't used Haskel
09:24 < Lucifer_arma> heh. :)
09:24 < fist_o_rage> s/Haskel/Eifell/g
09:24 < fist_o_rage> or whatever, you get the ideea.
09:26 -!- Lucifer_arma is now known as LuciKillsdistros
09:26 -!- LuciKillsdistros is now known as LuciKillsDistros
09:26 -!- LuciKillsDistros is now known as LuciEatsDistros
09:26 -!- LuciEatsDistros is now known as Lucifer_arma
09:26 < sepp> hehe
09:27 < Lucifer_arma> sorry. Just commenting in armagetron that I seem to have started arguments in #rocklinux and here
09:27 < Lucifer_arma> I don't mean to, they just folow me. Yarrrr.....
09:27 < fist_o_rage> arguments?
09:28 < Lucifer_arma> mini-arguments. actually, it's just regular talk, but could become arguments if you wanted.
09:28 < fist_o_rage> we were dicussing stuff, that is no argument...
09:29 < Lucifer_arma> I once told my daughter to pick up her mess, and she said she didn't make the mess. I told her "Don't argue with me."
09:29 < Lucifer_arma> she said "I'm not arguing"
09:29 < Lucifer_arma> "yes you are" "no I'm not" "yes you are" "no I'm not"
09:29 < Lucifer_arma> it was worth a laugh :)
09:29 < fist_o_rage> :D
09:29 < fist_o_rage> arguing about arguing.... that's new ;)
09:30 -!- You're now known as rxr
09:31 < fist_o_rage> hi rxr
09:31 < rxr> hi all
09:31 [Users #t2]
09:31 [@ChanServ] [ fist_o_rage] [ Lucifer_arma] [ sepp ] [ valentin]
09:31 [ Baldzius] [ idealm ] [ mnemoc ] [ sparc-kly_] [ _Ragnar_]
09:31 [ CIA-2 ] [ laj_ ] [ mtr ] [ Tauras ]
09:31 [ dsoul ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ tdi ]
09:31 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 18 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
09:31 < Lucifer_arma> so, can I get some sort of explanation for the fork without annoying anybody?
09:32 < Lucifer_arma> hi rxr
09:32 < fist_o_rage> not from me Lucifer_arma
09:33 < fist_o_rage> rxr: maybe? if he has time....
09:33 < Lucifer_arma> ok, basically my impression from the outside is that rocklinux is a cathedral project, and t2 forked to be a bazaar
09:33 < Lucifer_arma> You know, cathedral and the bazaar? :)
09:34 < Lucifer_arma> I don't care about specifics or who was right or any of that.
09:34 < fist_o_rage> yes Lucifer_arma i know the article
09:35 < Lucifer_arma> heh. SDE is in the topic for the channel. :)
09:35 < fist_o_rage> but as I said before i don't know Rock so I was not present at the fork.
09:36 < Lucifer_arma> right, right.
09:39 < rxr> fist_o_rage: yes thats it mostly
09:40 < rxr> you can see the dynamic difference of the two projects here:
09:40 < rxr> http://svn.exactcode.de/big.png
09:41 < Lucifer_arma> that's quite telling
09:43 < Lucifer_arma> rxr: you were with rock, right? and you're the lead here that did the fork?
09:46 < Lucifer_arma> there are two questions, one that the rock guys evaded, and if you're that person, maybe you can give a direct answer.
09:47 < Lucifer_arma> My impression of them at this point is that there's a certain amount of micro-management from their lead guy that interferes greatly with development. Is that true, in your opinion?
09:47 < rxr> I did a desktop flavour of rock even that was very popular at the time rock never managed to get a 1.6 release and did a lot fo work at rock 1.7 times which lead to me becomming the rock 2.0 maintainer
09:48 < rxr> I do not monitor current rock work nor does I know how they interact and such these days - it is better to ask them about their development
09:48 < Lucifer_arma> secondly, there was mention of an explosive temper. Personally, I have an explosive temper, so I can't see that as a fault. :) Whether true or not, what I'm interested in is is there an interference with real work?
09:48 < Lucifer_arma> I think they've stayed the same, your answer would be accurate enough for me at this point. They evaded, if they wanted to give a direct answer, they would've.
09:49 < rxr> I find this argument quite false, at the times I was at rock communication was quite good and most peoüle where very sad when I left, in fact I left because the rock guru continously "bailed" on people
09:50 < rxr> you can read this on their list archive - just look at the last mails before I left and you'll see
09:50 < Lucifer_arma> I didn't dig that far.
09:51 < Lucifer_arma> I think I've found out what I wanted to know, anyway. Thanks. :)
09:51 < rxr> another example is submaster, the rock "over gurus" often rejected patches with coments such as "this is wrong", "this stinks", "do it right and come back" when there was just a typo or polishing patch missing - those patches rejected in submaster got into t2 with the needed polishing withing minutes without bailing on those poeple
09:52 < rxr> or look that patches are most often rejected on the rock list with "we have submaster" where on t2 we just accept any form of patch or tarball send to the list
09:52 < rxr> I hope this gives you some idea
09:52 * rxr driving into the office, cu then
09:53 < Lucifer_arma> ok, you can stop whenever, I think you've answered my questions. :)
09:53 < Lucifer_arma> ok
10:03 < Lucifer_arma> does the libdvdcss work? ummm, the one Mandriva ships doesn't work for stupid DMCA reasons. Does the one for t2 work?
10:05 < Lucifer_arma> Fetching external item into 't2-trunk/target/mnemosyne'
10:05 < Lucifer_arma> Error validating server certificate for 'https://svn.ixplanet.net:443':
10:08 < Lucifer_arma> nvm, svn update took care of the problem
10:20 -!- sparc-kly_ [n=sparc@64.237.248.56] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:20 < Lucifer_arma> so what's the wrt2 target? Is that for installing on a linksys wrt router?
10:26 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.46.91] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
10:37 < rxr> Lucifer_arma: yes but it is work in progress and not yet finished
10:38 < rxr> Lucifer_arma: but since t2 offers quite outstanding cross-build functionality t2 is a perfect playround for such things
10:38 < Lucifer_arma> that's fine. :) We were wanting to build a package for openwrt anyway, this would just let us consolidate some effort.
10:38 < Lucifer_arma> um, you've sold me. Just cleaning up the rock stuff and starting the t2 build. :)
10:38 < Lucifer_arma> maybe sometime in the next couple of days I'll finally be rid of Kubuntu and in control of my own os, eh?
10:38 < rxr> (yes, especially compared to rock our cross support is way enhanced)
10:39 < Lucifer_arma> we also have a tester available, I think. I'll have to bump the thread on our forums, but he was willing to mod his box to fit a package, maybe he'll be able to test the wrt2 target.
10:40 < rxr> I think the wrt2 target is not ready to test yet :-(
10:40 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.67.234.143] has joined #t2
10:40 < rxr> moin idealm
10:40 [Users #t2]
10:40 [@ChanServ] [ fist_o_rage] [ Lucifer_arma] [ sepp ] [ _Ragnar_]
10:40 [ Baldzius] [ idealm ] [ mnemoc ] [ Tauras ]
10:40 [ CIA-2 ] [ laj_ ] [ mtr ] [ tdi ]
10:40 [ dsoul ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
10:40 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
10:41 < Lucifer_arma> that's fine. :) I'm not ready to build it yet.
10:41 < idealm> moin rxr
10:41 < Lucifer_arma> first I need a working desktop running t2. Then I need to make my car computer target, because that's the root of my interest.
10:42 < Lucifer_arma> Then I need to make my armagetronad-dedicated target and put it out for testing.
10:42 < Lucifer_arma> can dietlibc support python, mpg321, and ogg123? mplayer, maybe?
10:44 < fist_o_rage> 12:41:42< rxr> fist_o_rage: yes thats it mostly ?
10:44 < fist_o_rage> what do you mean rxr?
10:45 < rxr> fist_o_rage: remove the ? ,-)
10:46 < rxr> Lucifer_arma: dietlibc lacks in some areas, perl work - but python I do not know off hand - I do not use mpg321 but libmad should build - whether mplayer will work depends on if you need X, X might be problematic - if you are on x86 you might get it to run - the other platforms mostly miss shared library support and X will be even more a problem then
10:46 * rxr back to work
10:47 < Lucifer_arma> have fun. need to go to bed soon anyway...
10:52 < Lucifer_arma> the website says I have to build a bootdisc for an installer. I checked out trunk, and I'm building the desktop target. Do I need a bootdisc for it?
10:55 < fist_o_rage> no
10:55 < fist_o_rage> for trunk you do not need a bootdisk target
10:57 < Lucifer_arma> ok, thanks. Of course, it says for a 3ghz 64bit athlon it'll take three days, so I guess I'm waiting awhile.
10:57 < Lucifer_arma> forget that, I'm downloading a prebuilt one. :)
10:57 < fist_o_rage> well i never had to wait 3 days...
10:58 < fist_o_rage> but then again i allways trickelled with packs and i didn't built a full target...
11:00 < Lucifer_arma> the prebuilt stables all look optimized for processors that aren't mine. :(
11:00 < fist_o_rage> :)
11:00 < fist_o_rage> same here.
11:01 < Lucifer_arma> I wish it would finish downloading packages, I want to start the build and go to bed.
11:02 < fist_o_rage> i advise u to go to bed, download will take a while...
11:03 < Lucifer_arma> can I do Download && Build-Target and have it go from download to building automatically?
11:04 < fist_o_rage> you got me there Lucifer_arma
11:04 < Lucifer_arma> I will find out. :)
11:17 < Lucifer_arma> can't work, unless you do the download as superuser
11:23 < CIA-2> rene * r17611 /trunk/package/ (25 files in 25 dirs):
11:23 < CIA-2> * added pkg_linux26mm_{pre,post} where missing, except nvidia*,
11:23 < CIA-2> unionfs, at76c503a and slmodem which failed in my desktop testbuild
11:23 < CIA-2> with linux26mm
11:23 < fist_o_rage> building as nonsuperuser is on the todo list iirc...
11:24 < Lucifer_arma> well, I think my build will proceed without further interference, and I'm going to bed.
11:24 < Lucifer_arma> Thank you all for your help, and for answering all my silly questions and stuff.
11:28 < fist_o_rage> there is no such thing as silly question
11:28 < fist_o_rage> only bad answers ;)
11:28 < fist_o_rage> cu Lucifer_arma ;)
11:33 * Lucifer_arma is away: sleeping
12:33 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@e178045019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
12:33 < morfoh> re hi
12:34 < morfoh> wtf those alice motherf* have done ... what a bunch of liars
12:37 < sepp> they replaced your 16mbit dsl connection with a 14.4k modem? :)
12:37 < morfoh> sepp: nope :)
12:37 < morfoh> sepp: I just tried to connect the "broken" modem again because I had that kind of "feeling" ... and look it was working
12:38 < morfoh> it is
12:38 < morfoh> f* ... seems that they didn't finished the installation
12:39 < morfoh> but they tried all the time that I should call their non-free support
12:39 < morfoh> I was on phone for about 8h on tuesday
12:39 < morfoh> mostly hearing a f* 7sec. jingle
12:40 < morfoh> I get really agressive if I think about it
12:40 < morfoh> the longest time I was in the queue was 80min
12:40 < morfoh> till I dropped
12:40 < morfoh> sepp: you can imagine ... how nice it is to hear those f* jingle for 80 min
12:40 < sepp> yup
12:41 < morfoh> and they really said I should be patient regarding the new modem, because they told me that it will take nearly 1 week to send it
12:42 < morfoh> but at least the connection is quite fast now :)
12:55 < CIA-2> rene * r17612 /trunk/package/editors/xemacs-beta/xemacs-beta.conf:
12:55 < CIA-2> * improved xemacs-beta shared info file trickery to be more obvious
12:55 < CIA-2> and remove all prebuild .info files, they are build from the
12:55 < CIA-2> Makefile anyway
13:03 < tdi> ilo
13:28 < Tauras> hi morfoh
13:28 < Tauras> did you finish your article/doc about t2?
13:28 < CIA-2> rene * r17613 /trunk/package/audio/alsa-tools/ (alsa-tools.cache alsa-tools.conf):
13:29 < CIA-2> *`fixed alsa-tools to not try to build sb16_csp on powerpc64, likewise
13:29 < CIA-2> * rewrote the package to try to build as many included tools as possible
13:29 < CIA-2> * updated the cache file with the resulting new size and deps
13:35 < morfoh> Tauras: no ... I've other priorities atm. I've to do a lot paperwork for our lab at the university, and there is still an open "intellectual property" issue and other communication problems on t2 which make me think a lot of how open we really are. so my focus is on my own lab projects. I#
13:36 < morfoh> Tauras: I'm sorry ... but that's ho it is
13:36 < morfoh> how
13:36 < Tauras> :)
13:37 < Tauras> and what is the issue with "intellectual property"?
13:40 < rxr> that I do not yet release cross compile bits that I payed mnemoc to do for nearly a week without any outcome and have done now myself in 45 minutes
13:40 < rxr> with those bits we can cross building x.org and more - but if you have basic shell skills and know how to call a compiler you can retype them in about 45 minutes or wait after the 2.2 tag
13:41 < rxr> (or you are not interested in corss compiling at all ,-)
13:41 < Tauras> :) I'm running latest xorg 7.1
13:42 < Tauras> but not cross compiling
13:42 < Tauras> I work only in x86
13:42 < rxr> yep of course all builds fine natively in t2 since ages
13:43 < rxr> Tauras: do you use t2 already? what where the questions you wanted to have answered with that documentation ?
13:43 < Tauras> but it should be not an issue... it is open project and it is up to you to decide when and when you want to release your add-ons
13:43 < morfoh> rxr: yeah ... please continue blaming mnemoc ... it's funny to see :)
13:44 < Tauras> yesterday I wrote, mnemoc refered to Create-ErrList
13:44 < Tauras> well.. this script is completely masked :) no references at all
13:45 < Tauras> I use t2 scripts to build binaries
13:45 < rxr> morfoh: I do not blame - I just write down how it is abot the stuff you post here - if you have no clue at all it might be better to not inject your wisdom here
13:45 < mnemoc> rxr: you have much more experience than i doing corsscompiling stuff
13:47 < morfoh> rxr: but talking about mnemoc in a way that he has no clue is very funny to see ... I'd like to know in what kind of wonderland god@t2 is living :)
13:50 < rxr> morfoh: I did not say that, "just" that he did not deliver such stuff in a week - unfortunatly I'm not living in your wonderland it seems
13:50 < mnemoc> rxr: until when will you continue ranting against me? until you finally drop me out of t2?
13:52 < rxr> if you both have still not got it - I only write the thru to trolling around stared from your side, that is I only answered what inlectual property morfoh was ranting about is missing
13:52 < Tauras> hey guys, stop fighting :) your input is great
13:52 < rxr> I'm just silently doing my day job here, the hostile poking every few days are not mine
14:01 < morfoh> rxr: silently is different ... and btw. you don't have to convince yourself again and again ... and like I told you some days before ... I don't see any connection with the "mnemoc story" and that you're violating T2's license and the communication problems :) and I really don't know why you're repeating yourself again and again and again and again ... you don't need to write down all the "half truths" here to convince yourself ... it is fully ok i
14:03 < rxr> I'm not violiting any license
14:04 < rxr> the reapting is started on your keyboard and again there are no half truth on my side and you never respond to any question regarding what you would mean with that
14:07 < rxr> btw. I'm not violating any license because I do not hand away these code bits anyway - it would be different it I would sell that to other companies
14:07 < rxr> and even then I would only need to include it on that CDs or whatever in patch form or so
14:11 < Lucifer_arma> is there some place I can get the backstory for this argument? I love a good fight, especially when i know what it's about. :)
14:16 < fist_o_rage> re
14:17 < fist_o_rage> anyone got some info about HT100 chipset by ServerWorks?
14:31 < rxr> I have no serverworks info, sorry
14:33 < fist_o_rage> np
14:33 < fist_o_rage> i will put FC4 on it
14:33 < fist_o_rage> and i have the source for the driver
14:33 < fist_o_rage> so it might be added to T2 aswell
14:34 < fist_o_rage> but i will do that only after i kill myself first.
14:34 * fist_o_rage away again.
14:54 < Lucifer_arma> == 05/25/06 09:56:17 =[1]=> Aborted building package linux26mm.
14:54 < Lucifer_arma> -> Unmounting loop mounts ...
14:55 < Lucifer_arma> will it stop building over this? is this just the multimedia kernel?
14:56 < mnemoc> any failure on stage 1 is considered fatal
14:56 < mnemoc> disable it on your pkgsel to be able to continue building without hunting that that error
14:56 < mnemoc> hunting down*
14:58 < Lucifer_arma> Prompt for development and/or incomplete code/drivers (EXPERIMENTAL) [N/y/?] (NEW) aborted! <--- it looks to me like it failed to answer this prompt
15:00 < rxr> 26mm is not multi media - it is the andrew morton bleeding edge series
15:01 < rxr> Lucifer_arma: can you upload the full log somewhere ?
15:01 < rxr> btw. what do you build, generic ?
15:01 < Lucifer_arma> desktop
15:01 < rxr> ah, ok
15:01 < rxr> can you upload the file somewhere ?
15:01 < rxr> the error log that is
15:01 < rxr> build/.../var/adm/logs/1-linux26mm.err
15:01 < Lucifer_arma> http://www.davefancella.com/1-linux26mm.err
15:02 -!- fist_o_rage [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:06 -!- karasz [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has joined #T2
15:06 -!- fist_o_r1ge [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has joined #T2
15:06 -!- fist_o_r1ge is now known as fist_o_rage
15:06 -!- fist_o_rage [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has quit [Client Quit]
15:12 < Lucifer_arma> ok, disabled it. I can reenable it when you're ready for me to test a fix
15:13 < rxr> hm
15:13 < rxr> strange error
15:13 < rxr> I did not got such a thing here yet
15:13 < rxr> and I build linux26mm quite often
15:13 < rxr> very strange
15:14 < Lucifer_arma> host problem? host is Kubuntu
15:14 < Lucifer_arma> it's not chrooted yet, is it?
15:14 < rxr> not host as it
15:14 < rxr> maybe more different timer resolution or likewise that lets the linux Makefile system rebuild something (some config in this case) that it does not like from the script
15:15 < rxr> in the log it complaints that the config run can not be run due to input / output redirection
15:16 < Lucifer_arma> it built the kernel right before it
15:17 < rxr> the normal one you mean?
15:17 < rxr> well -mm has way newer, experimental changes
15:17 < Lucifer_arma> yes
15:17 < rxr> just continue without linux26mm for now
15:17 < Lucifer_arma> # gcc --version
15:17 -!- karasz [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:17 < Lucifer_arma> gcc (GCC) 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu9)
15:18 < Lucifer_arma> ok. Maybe after I'm in a t2 installation it'll be different. :)
15:18 < Lucifer_arma> stage 1 is still using the host build toolchain, right? I'm a little foggy on the bootstrapping details...
15:18 -!- karasz [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has joined #T2
15:19 < rxr> nope, stage 1 normally already uses the cross-compiler build in the stage-0
15:19 < rxr> moin karasz
15:19 < Lucifer_arma> ok
15:19 < Lucifer_arma> then we'll just have to see. :) I normally use a stock kernel anyway, nothing fancy.
15:20 < karasz> hello rxr
15:23 < CIA-2> rene * r17614 /trunk/package/perl/perl-digest-sha1/perl-digest-sha1.desc: * let perl-digest-sha1 utilize the perllocal hack
15:26 -!- karasz_ [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has joined #T2
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15:28 -!- karasz_ is now known as karasz
15:33 < morfoh> cu later
15:51 -!- karasz_ [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has joined #T2
15:53 -!- karasz [n=karasz@80.97.102.201] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:58 < CIA-2> rene * r17615 /trunk/package/gnome2/gstreamer/gstreamer.postinstall: * removed gstreamer.postinstall, the registry program is no longer there
16:10 < CIA-2> aldas * r17616 /trunk/package/network/lftp/ (hotfix_ssl.patch lftp.desc):
16:10 < CIA-2> * updated lftp (3.4.6 -> 3.4.7)
16:10 < CIA-2> * removed hotfix_ssl.patch - obsolete
16:17 < CIA-2> aldas * r17617 /trunk/package/graphic/xchm/xchm.desc: * updated xchm (1.7.1 -> 1.8)
16:30 < CIA-2> aldas * r17618 /trunk/package/database/postgresql/postgresql.desc:
16:30 < CIA-2> * updated postgresql (8.1.3 -> 8.1.4)
16:30 < CIA-2> * security update: CVE-2006-2313, CVE-2006-2314
16:32 < CIA-2> aldas * r17619 /trunk/misc/share/DownloadTranslations: * fixed postgresql URL in DownloadTranslations
16:53 < CIA-2> aldas * r17620 /trunk/package/kde/kbarcode/kbarcode.desc: * updated kbarcode (2.0.2 -> 2.0.3)
16:55 < CIA-2> aldas * r17621 /trunk/package/develop/liboil/liboil.desc: * updated liboil (0.3.8 -> 0.3.9)
16:55 < CIA-2> aldas * r17622 /trunk/package/network/rtorrent/rtorrent.desc: * updated rtorrent (0.5.2 -> 0.5.3)
16:58 < CIA-2> amery * r17623 /trunk/package/base/prngd/ (. prngd.conf prngd.desc): * added prngd (0.9.29) - A daemon designed to act as an entropy source.
17:00 < CIA-2> aldas * r17624 /trunk/package/x11/nvidia/nvidia.desc: * updated nvidia (1.0-8756 -> 1.0-8762)
17:00 < rxr> moin Baldzius
17:01 < Baldzius> hi rxr
17:02 < Baldzius> you know gcc 4.1.1 is out?
17:06 < rxr> have not yet seen the release
17:06 < rxr> but I did a ppc64 testbuild with the last prerelease
17:07 < rxr> I propose we tag 2.2.0-rc now, because I have the release builds ready
17:07 < rxr> and update then and have the 2.2.0 at the end of the month rebuild with the 4.1.1 release
17:08 < rxr> so far the only real bugger with 4.1.0 is that the compiler ICEs on wxwidgets on ppc64 and this is not fixed in the 4.1.1-prerelease :-(
17:11 -!- misl [n=chatzill@82-217-66-150.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
17:11 < misl> hi folks
17:12 < mnemoc> hi misl
17:12 < misl> hi mnemoc :)
17:13 < Baldzius> rxr: looks ok for me
17:13 < Baldzius> hi misl and mnemoc :)
17:13 < misl> hi Baldzius
17:14 < Baldzius> bbl
17:15 < mnemoc> hi master aldas
17:17 < LMJ> hello the chan
17:17 < LMJ> I know there is something called pdf2txt or so, where it could be in the packages ?
17:20 < karasz_> re
17:20 -!- karasz_ is now known as karasz
17:20 < rxr> LMJ: I don't have something like that on my system
17:21 < rxr> is google a help ?
17:21 < LMJ> in progress
17:21 < rxr> ./misc/archive/Find.sh pdf2txt
17:21 < rxr> ^- is also mostly silent
17:21 < LMJ> well, i take the question in the different angle ;) Do you know something to make pdf -> txt ? ;)
17:22 < rxr> I usually use kpdf to cut'n paste text
17:22 < rxr> but I guess you need something scriptable ?
17:22 < rxr> oh - and xpdf itself is also able to extract text
17:22 < LMJ> gonna try it
17:23 < LMJ> are you sure it can ?
17:23 < rxr> yep
17:23 < LMJ> cmd line extraction with xpdf ?
17:23 < rxr> though multi page might not be easy
17:23 < rxr> I fear xpdf only allows rectangular selection on one page
17:23 < rxr> you'll definetly find something for the command line on the net - but I do not have one off hand
17:23 * rxr resetting AP and router for a test - cu in some seconds
17:25 -!- rxr_ [n=rene@e178169243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
17:25 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.1.1 and 2.2.0-epsilon RELEASED! | The System Development Environment (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | Say hello and do not hesitate to ask us any questions that you may have. | http://www.rafb.net/paste/
17:25 -!- Topic set by mnemoc [] [Sat Mar 11 22:55:45 2006]
17:25 [Users #t2]
17:25 [@ChanServ] [ idealm] [ Lucifer_arma] [ mtr ] [ Tauras ]
17:25 [ Baldzius] [ karasz] [ misl ] [ rxr ] [ tdi ]
17:25 [ CIA-2 ] [ laj_ ] [ mnemoc ] [ rxr_] [ valentin]
17:25 [ dsoul ] [ LMJ ] [ morfoh ] [ sepp] [ _Ragnar_]
17:25 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 20 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]
17:25 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 19:15:33 2004
17:25 -!- [freenode-info] if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
17:26 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 36 secs
17:32 -!- rxr [n=rene@e178134140.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
17:32 -!- You're now known as rxr
17:58 -!- valentin [n=valentin@port-212-202-41-169.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:02 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.67.234.143] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:03 -!- valentin [n=valentin@port-212-202-41-169.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #t2
18:36 < karasz> cu later guys
18:36 < karasz> in about 1 hour
18:52 < rxr> cu karasz
19:21 < rxr> cu
19:30 -!- rxr_ [n=rene@e178153045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
19:30 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.1.1 and 2.2.0-epsilon RELEASED! | The System Development Environment (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | Say hello and do not hesitate to ask us any questions that you may have. | http://www.rafb.net/paste/
19:30 -!- Topic set by mnemoc [] [Sat Mar 11 22:55:45 2006]
19:30 [Users #t2]
19:30 [@ChanServ] [ karasz ] [ misl ] [ rxr ] [ tdi ]
19:30 [ Baldzius] [ laj_ ] [ mnemoc] [ rxr_ ] [ valentin]
19:30 [ CIA-2 ] [ LMJ ] [ morfoh] [ sepp ] [ _Ragnar_]
19:30 [ dsoul ] [ Lucifer_arma] [ mtr ] [ Tauras]
19:30 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 19 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal]
19:30 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 19:15:33 2004
19:30 -!- [freenode-info] if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
19:30 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 36 secs
19:39 -!- rxr [n=rene@e178169243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:44 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p83.129.178.116.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
19:52 < karasz> re
19:56 -!- sepp [n=sepp@p83.129.174.210.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:11 < sepp_> wb karasz (without strange nick) :)
20:11 -!- sepp_ is now known as sepp
20:11 < karasz> thx sepp
20:11 * karasz can now even sit on his chair...
20:14 < sepp> are you too heavy for the chair? :P
20:23 < mnemoc> were you riding?
20:31 < karasz> guys do not make fun of me.
20:31 < karasz> not now.
20:31 < karasz> i just passed my worst hibbeling in six month.
20:32 < mnemoc> :(
20:32 < karasz> but.
20:32 < karasz> i am back again ;)
20:32 < karasz> barely, but back.
20:32 < mnemoc> :)
20:33 < karasz> any experience with centos as host?
20:33 < mnemoc> .oO( what is a hibbeling? )o
20:33 < karasz> or i will be again the ice breaker?
20:33 < sepp> yes - what is "hibbeling"
20:33 < karasz> mnemoc: hibbeling is the state when you cannot stay in one place longer than 5 sec because of your nerves.
20:34 < mnemoc> ah, ok
20:34 < karasz> so about centos?
20:34 < sepp> way too much coffee?
20:34 < karasz> will i do the pineer work? like for PCLinuxOS?
20:34 < karasz> sepp: no.
20:35 < mnemoc> i have never touched a CentOS machine
20:35 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@e178045019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:36 < karasz> well, there is a first for everything, isn't it?
20:38 < karasz> e178045019.adsl.alicedsl.de ?????
20:38 < karasz> mnemoc: online again?
20:39 < mnemoc> yep, since today morning
20:39 < karasz> nice
20:39 < karasz> and kommrad is hidding as usual?
20:39 < mnemoc> he is not here
20:39 < karasz> ah
20:39 < karasz> ic
20:39 < mnemoc> :)
20:39 < karasz> i thought that he just avoids me ;)
20:39 < karasz> as usual :D
20:40 < mnemoc> nah
20:40 < karasz> mnemoc: do i sense a touch of pride in your statement?
20:41 < karasz> 23:37:04< mnemoc> i have never touched a CentOS machine
20:42 < mnemoc> :p
20:42 < mnemoc> nah, that was not the idea... but i have been using only 'my own products' since looong time ago :p
20:44 < karasz> it is a desperate measure.
20:44 < karasz> till i can get a pavian on it
20:44 < karasz> i don't want to build a pavian under cygwin and win2000
20:45 < mnemoc> :)
20:45 < mnemoc> which arch?
20:45 < sepp> mnemoc: are lines ^# in mnemosyne pure comments or some pseudo c?
20:45 < sepp> like '#Dependencies: X!=none'
20:46 < karasz> mnemoc: arch?
20:46 < mnemoc> attributes
20:46 < mnemoc> karasz: architecture
20:46 < karasz> sorry, i am bumb
20:46 < karasz> opteron.
20:46 < mnemoc> karasz: the only thing i have for opteron is a sheba
20:47 < karasz> i would like a desktop though... ;)
20:47 < mnemoc> but i could build you something if you want
20:47 < karasz> since is my sole wks...
20:47 < mnemoc> sepp: those are 'attributes' used by mnemosyne.pl
20:48 < mnemoc> sepp: in that case means that the value of the X (choice) module have to be different than none ,-)
20:49 < sepp> mnemoc: thanks - i understood != before ;)
20:50 < mnemoc> :p
20:51 < mnemoc> i told that because in the case of the boolean modules just the module name is enough :p
20:51 < mnemoc> #Dependencies: GTK for example
20:51 -!- misl [n=chatzill@82-217-66-150.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:55 < sepp> now i know, i can get rid of some more noise in my pkgsel :)
20:56 < mnemoc> :D
20:56 < sepp> but still Config sucks a lot
20:56 < sepp> its way too slow and strange/ugly
20:57 < mnemoc> ack
20:57 < mnemoc> on SATA it doesn'T suck that much
20:59 < sepp> no sata at home :(
21:04 < sepp> well, i like t2/mnemosyne a lot - my target looks *much* more sane now
21:06 < mnemoc> :D
21:06 < mnemoc> great to hear it
21:10 < sepp> 414 packages now and still every stange package i like ;)
21:10 < mnemoc> :D
21:10 -!- veki [n=vedran@gw.gnucentar.org.yu] has joined #t2
21:10 < mnemoc> wb veki
21:10 < veki> hi
21:10 < veki> how are you?
21:11 < sepp> hi veki
21:11 < veki> hi
21:11 < mnemoc> sepp: that's why i like to have pkgsel modules of explicit package selection
21:12 < sepp> mnemoc: yes, i agree - something like gtk2 (that means glib gtk pango atk) is much more clean if you want a small target
21:46 < CIA-2> amery * r17625 /trunk/package/database/pgadmin3/ (5 files): * added pgadmin3 (1.4.1) - A WXWindows-based PostgreSQL administration utility
21:51 < CIA-2> amery * r17626 /trunk/package/database/pgadmin3/pgadmin3.desc: * updated pgadmin3 (1.4.1 -> 1.4.2)
22:03 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@e178045019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
22:03 < karasz> hello kommrad ;)
22:04 < morfoh> hey tavarish :)
22:04 < morfoh> karasz: feeling better ? :)
22:04 < karasz> yes. a little.
22:05 < morfoh> good :)
22:05 < karasz> at least i am not hibbeling anymore
22:06 < karasz> now i can see the light at the end of the tunnel
22:06 < karasz> and I thank the person that showed me it ;)
22:07 < morfoh> karasz: I can imagine who it was :)
22:07 < morfoh> karasz: and btw, I was not hiding :)
22:07 < morfoh> already came home
22:07 < karasz> and i was not kiddin.... ;)
22:09 < morfoh> of course not ... you're mostly very serious :p
22:09 < karasz> yes
22:09 < morfoh> :)
22:09 < karasz> as everybody knows that
22:09 < karasz> should i change my nick to sam?!?
22:10 < karasz> i mean Serious Sam?
22:10 < morfoh> why that ?
22:10 < karasz> Srious Sam... ring a bell?
22:12 < morfoh> no sam is ringing my bell atm. and if he would do so I would shoot him :)
22:13 < karasz> you cannot shoot Serious Sam
22:13 < karasz> he will shoot you first
22:13 < karasz> Serious Sam is an first shooter...
22:14 < morfoh> what do you think is the meaning of my name ? I doubt that he will be capable shooting me :p
22:14 < karasz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_sam
22:15 < morfoh> let me see
22:15 < morfoh> lol
22:15 < morfoh> how should I know that
22:15 < karasz> :D
22:17 < morfoh> it's quite interesting that serious sam was vreated in croatia
22:17 < karasz> well, I myself am a Duke type, more than serious sam... it is too new for me ;)
22:18 < morfoh> I don't play shooters anymore ... I shoot for real :p
22:18 < veki> :-)
22:18 < morfoh> hi veki :)
22:18 < veki> hi, there are a lot of good prpogrammers in croatia
22:18 < veki> however, I think that there are better things to do than shooters
22:18 < veki> ;)
22:18 < morfoh> veki: ack :)
22:19 < karasz> gee....
22:19 < morfoh> veki: how are you btw ? ;)
22:19 < veki> I was thinking on you these days, morfoh
22:19 < karasz> attack of the serious guys...
22:19 < morfoh> karasz: :p
22:19 < veki> I met on teh conference a lot of people from African countries that
22:19 * karasz refuses to be serious tonight
22:19 < morfoh> veki: in what context ? because I was thinking on you too :)
22:19 < veki> would need free software and open hardware, universities, libraries, agriculture
22:20 < morfoh> veki: in the US ?
22:20 < veki> they may be interested in various projects
22:20 < veki> yes, I was in chicago atthe conference www.firstmonday.org
22:21 < morfoh> veki: nice :)
22:21 < veki> I presented there my paper and disucssed with people about it
22:21 < veki> I learnt a lot
22:21 < veki> for example, in Mozanbique in 2004 there were approx. 150 000 applications for patents
22:22 < veki> only one was filed by guy from mozambique
22:22 < morfoh> veki: I've to talk with you about a lot of things
22:22 < veki> so foreign businessman were reaping skin from their backs
22:22 < veki> good
22:22 < veki> :-)
22:22 < morfoh> veki: ;)
22:23 < morfoh> veki: tomorrow I'll have the next meeting and after that I'll write you a mail
22:23 < veki> guys from Nigeria and Ghana were talking about new colonialsims and imperialist politics of Europe and USA...
22:23 < veki> good, great
22:23 < morfoh> veki: I can imagine ... I know it quite well :/
22:24 < veki> yes, me too. after my speech they called me : brother from belgrade
22:24 < morfoh> veki: I'll be on this nice continent this summer
22:24 < mnemoc> :D
22:24 < morfoh> :)
22:24 < veki> good
22:24 < morfoh> so brother veki :)
22:25 < veki> I have some connections in cape Town and Durban in South Africa, one MP in Uganda, guy in Zimbabwe, Mauritius, Nigeria, Ghana etc.
22:25 < veki> hi brother morhof
22:25 < veki> brother morfoh
22:25 < morfoh> :)
22:26 < veki> they told me about how they received once humanitarian aid whihc was actually slimming diet food
22:26 < veki> crazy, guys are hungry in Africa but they received slimming diet food
22:26 < morfoh> veki: slimy food destroying the local food production :/
22:26 < veki> so, someone released their stock surplus and got money, not taking care about whom those commodities go
22:26 < morfoh> nice "aid"
22:26 < karasz> :( my shisha went out... it is too little imho
22:27 < morfoh> karasz: evil you :)
22:27 < veki> yes, and who will eat slimmimng food when people are hungry
22:27 < veki> or Muslim population received pork as an humanitarian aid
22:27 < karasz> morfoh: why do you think that I am evil?
22:28 < karasz> not that i am not, but i am curious .... ;)
22:28 < veki> karasz: so you see, it is visible ;)
22:28 < karasz> :( i thought that i disimulate it better...
22:29 < veki> karasz: I see your source code, not only binary ;)
22:29 < veki> I am kidding of course
22:30 < karasz> veki: don't wish for that...
22:30 < veki> I see ;)
22:30 < karasz> you'll run screaming :)
22:30 < veki> and ask for help!
22:30 < karasz> there is no help on that
22:30 < karasz> i comment my code ;)
22:31 < veki> so fear frozen and CPU blocked
22:31 < morfoh> karasz: what flavour do you smoke with your shisha atm ?
22:31 < karasz> was mango
22:31 * morfoh gets headaches from any :p
22:31 < karasz> ok, then i won't give you any. :P
22:31 < karasz> what did you tried?
22:32 < morfoh> karasz: a lot :)
22:32 < karasz> made by?
22:32 < morfoh> I was working for 3 months in egypt
22:32 < karasz> i allways go with egyptian brands
22:32 < karasz> so the same
22:32 < morfoh> :)
22:32 < karasz> funny i never had problems with egyptian flavours.
22:33 < karasz> sirian is that makes me puke
22:33 < morfoh> karasz: because you're evil I guess
22:33 < veki> :-)
22:33 < karasz> yeah, that must be it.
22:34 < morfoh> :)
22:39 < veki> check this out https://www.kent.ac.uk/law/copysouth/dossier.htm and take the doucment , it si interestingto read about treatment of people in development
22:51 < mnemoc> people in development? :)
22:51 < veki> countries in development
22:51 < mnemoc> :)
22:51 < veki> yes, abuse of copyright, patents etc.
22:51 < veki> very good article
22:56 < mnemoc> large article :)
22:57 < veki> yes, complete and killing study ;)
23:12 < mnemoc> downloaded, ... but now it's time to sleep
23:14 < veki> ok, good, me too, but read it, no excuse for anyone after reading it
23:15 < mnemoc> :)
23:16 < veki> yes, indeed :-)
23:16 < veki> cu
23:17 -!- veki [n=vedran@gw.gnucentar.org.yu] has left #t2 []
23:48 < morfoh> gn8 folks :)
--- Log closed Fri May 26 00:00:58 2006