--- Log opened Sun Apr 01 00:00:00 2007
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02:26 < th> rxr: i somehow remember this (...) bug from a long time ago:
02:26 < th> root@localhost:~# echo 1|bc -l
02:26 < th> Segmentation fault
02:26 < th> it reappears on the 64bit live you built
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08:28 < sepp> moin :)
08:29 < Capey> hi sepp
08:29 < sepp> hi Capey 
09:03 < sepp> no pink /. this year ...
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09:24 < misl> hi folks
09:31 < sepp> hi misl :)
09:31 < misl> hi sepp
10:29 < rxr> re
10:34 < Capey> uhm, should i be using linux26mips instead of linux26?
10:37 < rxr> Capey: not necessarily, this linux26mips is for Sgi boxes
10:38 < rxr> for the start you definetly should use exactly that {Open,Free}WRT are using
10:38 < rxr> otherwise you likely will end with a kernel that does not match the Linksys hardware
10:38 < Capey> rxr: yep, i imported few kernel patches from there for local testing
10:39 < Capey> rxr: but the qemu thing puzzles me. theres no way to test if image works
10:39 < rxr> this linux26mips might better have been named linux26sgi or linux26-sgi-octane ...
10:39 < rxr> you can ignore that for your linksys
10:46 < Capey> well have to figure out how to make sure image works
10:47 < rxr> can't the box even boot from tftp?
10:47 < rxr> so you can boot from network and if it does not work plug the power and load the original good one
10:48 < rxr> btw. do you have some terminal attached (serial or so) or hardcoded some ip address / servives to start up so you actually see something ?
10:50 < Capey> hmm, should boot from tftp
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10:59 < Capey> atleast builded binaries seems to work/run all right
11:05 < rxr> in qemu or copied onto the existing orig. Linksys firmware ?
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11:08 [Users #t2]
11:08 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-18] [ misl    ] [ rxr      ] [ Stelz] [ valentin] 
11:08 [ AStorm  ] [ emte  ] [ mtr     ] [ sepp     ] [ th   ] 
11:08 [ Capey   ] [ LMJ   ] [ R4gnar0k] [ sparc-kly] [ TobiX] 
11:08 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 16 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
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11:14 < Capey> in qemu.
11:15 < Capey> runned in build dir with qemu-mips <program>
11:15 < rxr> ah ok :-)
11:15 < CIA-18> rene * r23352 /trunk/package/xorg/xf86-input-joystick/xf86-input-joystick.desc: * updated xf86-input-joystick (1.1.1 -> 1.2.0)
11:15 < rxr> so just kernel patch and config import and some hardcoded programs on bootup and you have your own Linux running on the box ...
11:30 < CIA-18> rene * r23353 /trunk/package/gnome2/sakura/ (config.patch sakura.desc): * updated sakura (1.1.3 -> 1.1.4)
12:17 < CIA-18> susan * r23354 /trunk/package/doc/howtos/howtos.desc: * updated howtos (20070325 -> 20070331)
12:17 < CIA-18> susan * r23355 /trunk/package/scientific/octave/octave.desc: * updated octave (2.9.9 -> 2.9.10)
12:17 < CIA-18> susan * r23356 /trunk/package/develop/hte/hte.desc: * updated hte (2.0 -> 2.0.1)
13:11 -!- linuxbacon [n=sam@c-24-60-166-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #t2
13:11 < linuxbacon> hi guys
13:12 < linuxbacon> can you tell me why T2 SDE is better than rock?
13:12 < linuxbacon> or how it is different
13:13 < linuxbacon> is anyone online?
13:13 < rxr> well - some 18000 SVN revisions ahead
13:13 < rxr> 1000++ new packages
13:13 < linuxbacon> oh my
13:13 < rxr> the others way more updated
13:13 < linuxbacon> but is the base the same
13:14 < rxr> real livecd
13:14 < rxr> tons of cleanups and bugfixes
13:14 < rxr> yeah - base is the same
13:14 < rxr> fork at revision 3xxx
13:14 < rxr> rock is at 7xxx now - T2 at 2333x ...
13:14 < linuxbacon> ah
13:14 < rxr> r23356
13:14 < rxr> and T2 can cross compile way more, including C++
13:14 < linuxbacon> yeah and rock doesnt seem as active
13:14 < rxr> and supports a bunch of new architectures ...
13:14 < linuxbacon> but like is the UI the same basically
13:15 < rxr> the config ui, yes?
13:15 < linuxbacon> like can you still do the same stuff
13:15 < rxr> for the changes we have done in the first 2 years, read:
13:15 < linuxbacon> yeah I mean that
13:15 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/releases/2.1.html
13:15 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/releases/6.0.html
13:15 < linuxbacon> the part where you actually get to choose what you want to make
13:15 < linuxbacon> for your distro
13:15 < rxr> yes, that looks the same
13:16 < rxr> but got many new features
13:16 < rxr> bug fixes and so on
13:16 < linuxbacon> thank you very much
13:16 < linuxbacon> oh another question
13:16 < rxr> we will rewrite that Config further in the future as the Config got slower every month with more packages and feature
13:16 < rxr> we already fixed some Config slowness, but the remaining slowness needs a redesign ...
13:17 < linuxbacon> how long do you think it would take to build for a live cd distro on a Pentium 4 with 256mb of RAM?
13:17 < rxr> depends how many packages you have in it
13:17 < linuxbacon> and would ROCK be faster for this task
13:17 < linuxbacon> ok 
13:17 < rxr> heh - no, ROCK will not be faster, rather slightly slower ...
13:17 < linuxbacon> thank you anyways
13:17 < rxr> (our sandbox has got some optimisations ... - such as file list tracking and such)
13:18 < linuxbacon> also, can I build a build a distro from scratch?
13:18 < rxr> for a minimal-desktop the box would need around a day
13:18 < linuxbacon> is there I guide for that
13:18 < rxr> yes, T2 always builds from scrarch, that is it bootstraps a fresh compiler and builds the selected packages with the fresh one
13:18 < linuxbacon> but doesnt it need a base distro?
13:18 < rxr> just compile your own livecd or something entirely new?
13:19 < rxr> well - you need some "unix" with gcc, sed, awk and a shell
13:19 < rxr> not too much more, can even be debian or suse ...
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13:19 < rxr> in the final T2 CD only T2 generated binaries will be included
13:19 < linuxbacon> well i am a newbie to distro making so should I try basing it off something first?
13:20 < linuxbacon> and im not a coder
13:20 < rxr> well - build a normal CD for the first try
13:20 < linuxbacon> based off something else?
13:20 < rxr> and when you want to modify it copy the target description in t2/targets/ t your own name and start modifining it ..
13:20 < rxr> like adding packages or functionality ...
13:21 < linuxbacon> the rock linux website says I can choose the packaging system i want. Can i do this in T2
13:21 < linuxbacon> ?
13:21 < rxr> depends what you mean with packaging system
13:21 < linuxbacon> like RPM, Debian, Smart
13:21 < rxr> T2 can do all ROCK was able to do + a whole bunch of fresh features
13:21 < linuxbacon> ok
13:22 < linuxbacon> I get it finally
13:22 < rxr> ROCK Linux does not allow generting RPMs ...
13:22 < rxr> T2 neither
13:22 < linuxbacon> oh
13:22 < linuxbacon> my bad
13:22 < rxr> but T2 allows you to chose .tar.bz2, .gem, ...
13:22 < rxr> more than ROCK Linux
13:22 < linuxbacon> how about Deb and tar.gz?
13:22 < rxr> in theory you could stick RPM or DEB into it
13:22 < linuxbacon> oh
13:22 < linuxbacon> but im not a coder
13:23 < rxr> well - tar.* is fine
13:23 < linuxbacon> yeah
13:23 < rxr> T2 can generate that, even use it by default
13:23 < rxr> ROCK Linux forces more to an properitary .gem format, which T2 can still generate - but you normally do not want it ...
13:23 < linuxbacon> could I install Smart during creation
13:23 < rxr> in the future T2 will likely allow generating .deb and .rpm ...
13:23 < rxr> for people needing it ...
13:23 < linuxbacon> you know Smart package manager?
13:23 < rxr> nope
13:23 < linuxbacon> oh 
13:24 < linuxbacon> it is a package management system that resolves dependencies and will work with almost and format
13:24 < linuxbacon> and you can even make a system with different package formats on it
13:25 < linuxbacon> like you can have DEB. tar.gz, and RPM on one computer 
13:25 < linuxbacon> but it is risky to do the latter
13:26 < linuxbacon> another question
13:26 < linuxbacon> oh nvm
13:26 < linuxbacon> thank you for your help
13:26 < linuxbacon> bo
13:26 < linuxbacon> bi
13:26 < rxr> nvm ?
13:26 < linuxbacon> never mind
13:27 < linuxbacon> thats what it means
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13:36 < linuxbacon> hello again
13:36 < linuxbacon> can I base my T2 distro off of Debian, SUSE, Mandriva, ect...
13:36 < linuxbacon> without too much coding knowledge
13:38 < linuxbacon> hello?
13:40 < rxr> no
13:40 < rxr> Linux variants built by T2 are based off of T2
13:40 < rxr> same as in ROCK Linux
13:40 < rxr> that is the packages are built from the original source code of the orignial authors
13:42 < linuxbacon> os what can I base my distro off
13:42 < linuxbacon> oh i see
13:42 < linuxbacon> so is T2 a live cd
13:43 < linuxbacon> or do I run it on another OS?
13:43 < linuxbacon> oh wait I know the answer
13:43 < linuxbacon> you run it on another distro
13:43 < linuxbacon> but it doesnt matter which one
13:44 < linuxbacon> I see
13:44 < linuxbacon> thank you
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13:59 < bendiken> howdy
14:02 < bendiken> I'm fumbling around with my first build of T2 (sent some problem reports to the mailing list)... since the Embedded target doesn't quite build out-of-the-box on the 6.0 branch, I'm wondering if there is a more "minimal" target? the Minimal target mentioned in the handbook doesn't seem to exist any longer?
14:03 < bendiken> the Router target looks pretty small, but there is a warning there that it is obsolete?
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14:29 < rxr> re
14:30 < rxr> bendiken: I right now test build the embedded 6.0 one due to gmp
14:30 < rxr> likely a single revision merge missing
14:30 < rxr> I'll know in some minutes
14:30 < rxr> the minimal from the handbook does still exist, just select generic and the below the target the minimal selection template
14:30 < rxr> do you want to cross build or just a minimal build
14:31 < rxr> when you want to cross build to e.g. arm or mips then embedded is the best choice
14:33 < bendiken> rxr: ok, thanks. what I'd like is really just something minit + busybox, so that I get something successfully built and can experiment and add more on top of that
14:34 < bendiken> I'm compiling on x86 for x86, so cross build not really necessary
14:35 < rxr> well - anyway, for minit+busybox embedded is goo
14:35 < rxr> d
14:35 < rxr> leaving the option to later just select ARM or MIPS and cross build
14:35 < rxr> I guess are're the one with the GMP failure ?
14:36 < bendiken> btw, I'm running on an OS X host using Ubuntu 6.10 inside Parallels Desktop... I started out by trying to boot the 6.0.3 livecd in Parallels, but some probs there - after logging in as user 'live', just a greenish screen?
14:36 < bendiken> yes, I had the GMP prob
14:37 < rxr> heh - yeah the greenisn screen of the 6.0.3 live most probably was just fine, that's the TWM, right click yields an xterm :-)
14:37 < rxr> the 6.0.3 is a minimal-x.org-livecd
14:37 < bendiken> heh :)
14:37 < rxr> though it ships firefox and gimp as well must stuff is vanilla X.org, thus xdm and twm and xterm :-)
14:37 < rxr> anyway building in ubuntu in parallel is just fine as well
14:37 < bendiken> ok, I'll give that another go, then...
14:38 < rxr> nah
14:38 < rxr> your current setup is fine anyway
14:38 < rxr> building in a livecd is not that much better
14:38 < rxr> the GMP problem is generic, I saw this once already as well
14:38 < bendiken> ok
14:38 < rxr> Capey: I drew a nice wrt2 logo
14:39 < bendiken> anyway, at least I can confirm then that the livecd does work on both Parallels and VMware Fusion under OS X :)
14:39 < Capey> rxr: can i see it?
14:39 < rxr> bendiken: for a quick fix you can disable gmp and openssl in the embedded target anyway, as long as you do not need it
14:39 < rxr> Capey: just preparing the html site injection
14:39 < bendiken> rxr: ok - nothing depending on openssl?
14:39 < rxr> not in the embedded
14:39 < bendiken> ok
14:40 < rxr> the embedded is just the example testbed anyway so people get a feeling how tiny a tiny system can be
14:41 < bendiken> Capey: puhutko suomea?
14:41 < Capey> bendiken:jep
14:41 < bendiken> Capey: hienoa - terkkuja aurinkoisesta espanjasta :)
14:42 < Capey> bendiken: heh :) asut siellä pysyvästi?
14:42 < rxr> heh
14:42 < bendiken> Capey: jep, neljatta vuotta
14:42 < bendiken> talking finnish
14:42 < bendiken> :P
14:43 < Capey> damm, needs some heavy rediffing kernel patches for linksys
14:43 < rxr> http://people.exactcode.de/~rene/t2-7.0-trunk-beryl.png
14:44 < rxr> Capey: no, no, just use exactly their version and patches
14:44 < rxr> Capey: no rediffing in the first weeks :-)
14:44 < Capey> rxr: is the any unified way to add broadcom chipset support selectable in Config that would incorporate needed patches?
14:44 < Capey> rxr: ok
14:44 < rxr> Capey: believe me, just getting it to work once is more satisfaction and fun, rediffing to later kernels can be done later
14:45 < rxr> Capey: well - 2.6.xx has broadcom already
14:45 < rxr> Capey: that url is my desk with the wrt2 logo work on it
14:46 < Capey> good god, what resolution are you running?
14:46 < Capey> or better yet, how big screen you have? 30"?
14:46 < rxr> nope, the tiniest Apple Cinma display
14:47 < rxr> 20" I think
14:47 < Capey> oh, looks so big on the screen shot
14:47 < rxr> 1680x1050
14:47 < rxr> ah yes, the windows are scaled down
14:47 < rxr> that is the Beryl overview scale feature
14:47 < rxr> like OS X Expose ...
14:48 < Capey> i should update to trunk on my desktop someday
14:48 < rxr> (works only with the highest quality GL drivers anyway ... - good I have this slow Intel G945, where at least the Linux drivers are rock solid ...)
14:48 < bendiken> rxr: heh, I figured out why I hadn't got xterm open in the livecd: sending a right click to TWM is going to be a problem on the Mac with Parallels :)
14:49 < rxr> oh
14:49 < bendiken> rxr: may I recommend popping up an xterm right from the start after login? would be less confusing :)
14:49 < rxr> bendiken: we usually do not build this minimal-xorg-live, this is just a one-time-test
14:50 < rxr> next release will demo some other build composition
14:50 < bendiken> rxr: ah, ok - no worries. just wanted to test it out. I'm going to get back to my embedded build now...
14:50 < rxr> our usual desktop-live have more usability, like KDE and it's wizards poping up
14:50 < rxr> Capey: what do you think about that logo ?
14:51 < Capey> rxr: its good, nice "telecommunication" feeling
14:52 < Capey> i think the 1/4 circles on top right reminds me of one ISP here. but cant remember what the company name was
14:53 < rxr> if more poeple like it i could do some angle and pixel fine-tuning ...
14:53 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/targets/wrt2.html
14:56 < Capey> uhm, when i override package version on target dir, do i need to manually add patches from that dir too, or are they automatically used?
14:58 < rxr> the patches in the override directory should get added automatically
14:58 < rxr> if not it's a bug
14:59 < rxr> btw. I still have not implemented downloading of the overrides ... .-(
15:07 < rxr> so - of for lunch
15:08 < rxr> bendiken: I should have a build stuck at GMP when I'm back - cu then
15:08 < bendiken> rxr: ok, ttyl
15:20 < valentin> http://www.google.com/tisp/
15:21 < bendiken> it's that day of the year :)
15:26 -!- manoflinux [n=sam@c-24-60-166-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #t2
15:27 < manoflinux> could someone tell me why T2 is better or worse than LFS?
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15:28 < manoflinux> which is better for making custom distros?
15:28 -!- sepp [n=sepp@p213.54.23.22.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
15:28 < Capey> -> LINK DYN  /t2/t2-trunk/src/Linux-x86_64/bash/luabash.so
15:28 < Capey> /t2/t2-trunk/build/linksys-7.0-trunk-wrt2-mips-EB/TOOLCHAIN/tools.cross/crosscc/../lib/gcc/mips-t2-linux-uclibc/4.1.2/../../../../mips-t2-linux-uclibc/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++
15:29 < Capey> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
15:29 < Capey> make: *** [/t2/t2-trunk/src/Linux-x86_64/bash/luabash.so] Error 1
15:29 < Capey> -> Error building the LUA bash accelerator.
15:29 < Capey> manoflinux: what do you mean by which?
15:29 < manoflinux> is LFS or T2 better for making distros?
15:29 < manoflinux> thats what I mean
15:30 < Capey> well, T2 is someform of LFS
15:30 < bendiken> manoflinux: I'm just a T2 newbie so I won't attempt to answer comprehensively. however, this has been discussed before: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.t2-project.org+LFS
15:30 < manoflinux> what?
15:30 < Capey> meaning build process is quite the same type, but T2 is way more automated
15:30 < bendiken> yeah, I think LFS is more targeted towards educational purposes, whereas T2 is for the "real world"
15:31 < Capey> exactly
15:31 < manoflinux> yeah but T2 doesnt let you choose things such as apt, RPM, Pacman, DEB, ect..
15:31 < manoflinux> and LFS does
15:31 < bendiken> well, it only means that nobody yet needed those on T2
15:31 < bendiken> they could probably be added
15:32 < bendiken> it might be more apt to compare T2 to Buildroot instead of to LFS - my impression is that T2 is "Buildroot on steroids"
15:33 < valentin> bendiken: :)
15:33 < valentin> lfs is "do it yourself"
15:33 < valentin> t2 is "define what you want"
15:34 < valentin> lfs is just an "instruction handbook", then there is automated lfs, which is just a script
15:35 < valentin> then there is gentoo, which is a bunch of inflexible emake files ;)
15:44 < manoflinux> yeah
15:44 < manoflinux> i have a question
15:44 < manoflinux> how does one add packages without dependency problems post install>
15:44 < manoflinux> ?
15:45 < valentin> existing or self defined packages ?
15:45 < manoflinux> I mean like existing I guess
15:45 < valentin> if the package file exist, you can merge-build them into the system. dependencies are resolved, if you choose so
15:45 < manoflinux> how do you do that?
15:45 < manoflinux> is there a guide?
15:46 < valentin> ./scripts/Emerge-Package $packagename
15:46 < manoflinux> oh thank you
15:46 < manoflinux> wait there is emerge in T2
15:46 < valentin> if you don't want dependencies, just do -deps=none
15:46 < valentin> or do -dry-run
15:46 < manoflinux> i thought emerge was only in Gentoo
15:47 < valentin> yes, the name is a joke from old days
15:47 < manoflinux> whatever
15:47 < valentin> before, you had to call ./scripts/Download ant ./scripts/Buildssth..
15:47 < valentin> and all the gentoo users always said, their system is more advanced because it does the download and the build in one step
15:48 < manoflinux> and how does one upgrade packages
15:49 < valentin> upgrade the package description files (i.e use svn to get the new ones)
15:49 < valentin> and then use the scripts to build them
15:49 < valentin> or use binary packages from a third party
15:50 < manoflinux> can I install a package manager after install
15:51 < manoflinux> such as Pacman, Conary, Yum, ect..
15:51 < valentin> well, you could install sth like that, but i think you will get some trouble if you just use binary packages precompiled for other distros
15:51 < valentin> its like using suse rpms on redhat
15:51 < manoflinux> what is sth
15:52 < manoflinux> yeah I would download from source
15:52 < valentin> if you want to build from source, why do you need another package manger than t2
15:53 < manoflinux> no i would build pacman from source
15:53 < manoflinux> and then use it
15:53 < manoflinux> maybe I don't need to do that
15:53 < manoflinux> can you help me understand how to upgrade packages
15:54 -!- sepp [n=sepp@p213.54.23.22.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
15:54 < sepp> hello :)
15:54 < manoflinux> like with examples, or point me to a guide?
15:54 < valentin> manoflinux: what is your use case, you are talking about your own workstation i guess ?
15:54 < manoflinux> yeha
15:54 < manoflinux> yeah
15:54 < valentin> i use ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg to update packages or even whole repositories at once
15:55 < valentin> to build them from source into my system
15:55 < valentin> and i keep my package description database up to date via svn
15:55 < manoflinux> so you just download the newer versions on top of the older ones
15:55 < manoflinux> doesnt your system get filled up?
15:55 < valentin> i just type "svn up" in my t2 checkout here and there
15:55 < valentin> why would it be filled up
15:56 < valentin> i don't download any sources unless i build sth
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15:56 < manoflinux> what does sth stand for
15:56 < valentin> sth = something ;)
15:57 < valentin> i.e i want a new bash version, i type "./scripts/Emerge-Pkg xemacs" 
15:57 < valentin> i.e i want a new bash version, i type "./scripts/Emerge-Pkg bash" 
15:57 < valentin> sorry
15:57 < valentin> before i do an "svn up" in my t2 directory
15:57 < valentin> so i get the newest package description files
15:58 < valentin> if there is no package description file for the software/version i want, i do one on my own and add it too the public t2 repository
16:04 -!- AStorm [n=astralst@chello089076180089.chello.pl] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.3"]
16:07 < valentin> bbl
16:07 < valentin> be back later
16:41 < LMJ> moin moin
16:48 < Stelz> moin moin LMJ
16:52 -!- Kleper [n=Kleper@190.24.32.185] has joined #t2
17:12 < rxr> e
17:17 < mqueiros> Hello... Got this error while building my first T2: http://rafb.net/p/340qcB79.html Can anyone give me some hint ?
17:18 < rxr> mqueiros: which target is that ?
17:18 < mqueiros> I'm builing 6.0.3... Target I believe is "generic"
17:20 < rxr> hm - it looks like your host system ncurses.h is included
17:20 < rxr> might be a bug we usually do not experience building t2 on t2 because that header is more matching in that case ...
17:23 < mqueiros> I will take a look at the log in 1-procps.err
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17:35 < rxr> hi sepp and Kleper 
17:35 [Users #t2]
17:35 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-18] [ manoflinux] [ R4gnar0k] [ sparc-kly] [ TobiX   ] 
17:35 [ bendiken] [ Kleper] [ mqueiros  ] [ rxr     ] [ Stelz    ] [ valentin] 
17:35 [ Capey   ] [ LMJ   ] [ mtr       ] [ sepp    ] [ th       ] 
17:35 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
17:36 < CIA-18> rene * r23357 /branches/6.0/package/base/uclibc/uclibc.conf: 
17:36 < CIA-18> * merged r22716 from trunk: fixed uclibc to compile in CROSS mode
17:36 < CIA-18>  when it is a non-native build stage
17:36 < Kleper> hi rxr 
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17:47 < rxr> mtr: what do you think about finally starting CROSS tags ?
17:47 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
17:48 < misl> rehi
17:48 < rxr> hi misl 
17:49 < misl> hi rxr
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18:00 < CIA-18> rene * r23358 /trunk/package/graphic/asymptote/asymptote.desc: * updated asymptote (1.23 -> 1.24)
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18:02 < dragon_cz> hi, anybody here willing to ask a (probably trivial) question to a T2 newbie?
18:02 < dragon_cz> sorry, answer
18:02 < dragon_cz> :)
18:02 < rxr> heh - sure, we do this all the time
18:02 < rxr> ask as much as you want :-)
18:02 < dragon_cz> well, I've installed T2 6.0.0 today
18:03 < dragon_cz> and the problem is, that it automatically loads tridentfb module, which cripples my console
18:03 < rxr> oh
18:03 < rxr> you installed 6.0.0 or booted some 6.0.3 ?
18:03 < dragon_cz> so I want to disable autoloading of this module
18:03 < dragon_cz> no, installed 6.0.0
18:03 < rxr> ic, ok
18:04  * rxr has to take a look if 6.0.0 had the blacklist implemented
18:04 < dragon_cz> I tried setting PCI_SKIP_MODULES="tridentfb" in /etc/conf/pci
18:04 < dragon_cz> but it didn't help
18:06 < rxr> I fear 6.0.0 had no hotplug++ blacklist support
18:06 < rxr> I guess when you already managed to edit /etc/conf/pci you know of to log into the system
18:07 < rxr> just remove the kernel module then in /lib/modules/2.6.17....
18:07 < rxr> the tridentfb one
18:07 < rxr> later 6.0 versions got blacklist support
18:07 < dragon_cz> yeah, console is not crippled enough to be unasable, it's just annoying
18:07 < rxr> for that you just have to edit /etc/conf/blacklist
18:08 < rxr> but on a vanilla 6.0.0 install /etc/conf/blackllist is not yet there and hotplug++ has not such a feature yet
18:08 < rxr> so just remove the tridentfb.ko for now I would day
18:08 < dragon_cz> I did that as a workaround, not very clear one, but working, ok then :)
18:08 < rxr> day
18:08 < rxr> say
18:08 < rxr> later on you could update hotplug++ and place the tridenffb into the file for the future
18:09 < dragon_cz> and second question - scipts like Emerge-pkg etc are mentoined in the handbook, but I can't find them on my system - I guess I have to fetch something from SVN?
18:09 < rxr> just for reference, which trident card do you have? maybe post the lspci entry here
18:09 < rxr> dragon_cz: yes: http://www.t2-project.org/download/
18:10 < rxr> please checkout the branches/6.0 - NOT trunk, as trunk is in flux for developers :-)
18:11 < dragon_cz> I have no problem with development versions, I'm Slackware-current and NetBSD-current user, but wanted something stable to start with unknown system :)
18:11 < rxr> well - t2/trunk is a bit too new, it would update nearly anything on your system when you run an Emerge
18:12 < dragon_cz> ok
18:12 < rxr> you probably want to get some feeling for t2 until you get to the expert corner cases
18:12 < rxr> e.g. trunk has newer glibc, X.org, ...
18:13 < dragon_cz> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Trident Microsystems CyberBlade/i1
18:13 < dragon_cz> that's the trident card
18:13 < rxr> bendiken: the gmp error you run into due to only halfly working C++ cross compiler
18:13 < rxr> bendiken: I'll import the single changeset fixing that to 6.0
18:13 < rxr> dragon_cz: thanks
18:14 < dragon_cz> (it took me some time because I had to figure out which interface is eth0, I have three NICs in that machine)
18:14 < bendiken> rxr: great, thanks!
18:15 < rxr> dragon_cz: all of the same manufactor ?
18:15 < dragon_cz> rxr: two 3coms and one Realtek
18:15 < rxr> ethtool can get some info from the device, driver name and sometimes product name and such ...
18:17 < dragon_cz> ok, thanks
18:17 < dragon_cz> good to know :)
18:18 < dragon_cz> Where should I extract the tarball? wherever I want to setup my build environment?
18:18 < rxr> yes wherever you like, some people prefer /usr/src/t2-..., the T2 source does not care :-)
18:20 < dragon_cz> ok, and how can I do bulk upgrade of my system to 6.0.3 - including packages?
18:20 < dragon_cz> just respond RTFM if this is too well answered in the handbook :)
18:21 < rxr> after download (6.0.3 tarbal or SVN branches/6.0)
18:21 < rxr> copy the system config: cp -r /etc/SDE-CONFIG config/default
18:21 < rxr> run the Config once: ./scripts/Config -oldconfig
18:22 < rxr> and then let Emerge-Pkg do the work: ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg -system
18:22 < rxr> the scripts to be run from inside the T2 source-tree
18:22 < dragon_cz> ok, thanks a lot
18:25 < rxr> bendiken: so - gcc rebuild for a test, I hope to commit the GMP related fix soon
18:26 < bendiken> rxr: ok - booting up my ubuntu VM in anticipation :)
18:26 < dragon_cz> oh, when I do ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg -system it will build ALL available packages?
18:26 < dragon_cz> I would like to upgrade just those I have already installed
18:27 < rxr> dragon_cz: only of the current configuration
18:27 < dragon_cz> ok
18:27 < rxr> that's they the first "copy system configuraton" step is so important
18:27 < rxr> and of cource only package that got updated
18:27 < rxr> you can also add a -dry-run for a test
18:27 < rxr> it prints out what it builds and why it thinks so
18:29 < dragon_cz> well, it says it's going to build some xf86 packages which I haven't installed for sure
18:31 < mqueiros> what kind of hosts do you use to build T2 ?
18:31 < rxr> mqueiros: /me ?
18:31 < mqueiros> rxr: anynone... :)
18:31 [Users #t2]
18:31 [@ChanServ] [ dragon_cz ] [ misl    ] [ rxr      ] [ th      ] 
18:31 [ bendiken] [ Kleper    ] [ mqueiros] [ sepp     ] [ TobiX   ] 
18:31 [ Capey   ] [ LMJ       ] [ mtr     ] [ sparc-kly] [ valentin] 
18:31 [ CIA-18  ] [ manoflinux] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz    ] 
18:31 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 19 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal]
18:31 < mqueiros> I'b tried Centos 4.4, but will try with ubuntu 6.06 to...
18:32 < rxr> dragon_cz: what does Emerge print? not installed ?
18:32 < dragon_cz> rxr: for example "checking inkscape ... Not installed. Added."
18:33 < rxr> hm, ok - then -system updates based on the config selection, not the system installed packages
18:33 < rxr> the trunk Emerge has a -missing=no, to not install packages that are not installed ...
18:33 < rxr> though that was not yet backported to 6.0
18:33 < dragon_cz> so it's going to build all packages that are on the install CDs I've used?
18:33 < bendiken> mqueiros: I'm using the Ubuntu 6.10 server version
18:34 < rxr> dragon_cz: yeah - I think we should backport the tiny -mising=... option to 6.0 ...
18:34 < rxr> then you could say Emerge-Pkg -system -missing=no
18:34 < rxr> mqueiros: I use T2 itself most of the time
18:35 < mqueiros> bendiken: ok, thanks. I'm going to try with Ubuntu 6.06...
18:35 < dragon_cz> rxr: well, doesn't matter, it will be handy to have 6.0.3 install media at hand
18:35 < mqueiros> rxr: Using T2 it's probably the best, to avoid problems... isn't it ?
18:37 < rxr> mqueiros: yes it is, but we actively fix problem reports from other distributions as companies usually have those on the machines to build t2 based products
18:37 < rxr> so it "is suppost and must" work
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18:38 [Users #t2]
18:38 [@ChanServ] [ d-marc   ] [ manoflinux] [ R4gnar0k ] [ Stelz   ] 
18:38 [ bendiken] [ dragon_cz] [ misl      ] [ rxr      ] [ th      ] 
18:38 [ Capey   ] [ Kleper   ] [ mqueiros  ] [ sepp     ] [ TobiX   ] 
18:38 [ CIA-18  ] [ LMJ      ] [ mtr       ] [ sparc-kly] [ valentin] 
18:38 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 20 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]
18:38 < rxr> hey dragon_cz 
18:38 < rxr> err
18:38 < rxr> hi d-marc 
18:38 < d-marc> hello
18:39 < bendiken> rxr: has anyone tried building T2 from OS X yet, to your knowledge? I read that there is interest for supporting it in the future (and I'd certainly prefer that over booting up a linux VM in Parallels)
18:40 < rxr> yes - I myself
18:40 < rxr> but I even work arounded a few things here and there but do not have the time to actively push that
18:40 < rxr> you are welcome to work on that task :-)))
18:41 < bendiken> what kind of problems were there? similar stuff as what the buildroot guys ran into (diff. options for basic utilities like cp, etc)
18:41 < rxr> yes, and mktemp and the like
18:42 < rxr> well - ideally T2 should even be extended to allow "Emerging" single source packages into OS X
18:42 < rxr> like e.g. Fink or so ...
18:42 < rxr> to use T2 for e.g. ./scripts/Emerge gimp et al.
18:42 < bendiken> well, I probably personally wouldn't find that usage very useful - I think MacPorts is rather superb for that
18:42 < bendiken> but I would certainly like to be able to build linux distros straight from the OS X userland
18:43 < bendiken> ok, I'll give it a try once I get a bit more familiar with T2, and report back :)
18:44 < dragon_cz> rxr: If I wanted to build ISOs with my custom set of packages, I guess I would need to write my own target definition?
18:44 < rxr> not necessarily
18:45 < rxr> if you just want to ship a different package set you could either just select one of the three pre-configuration template (minimal, minimal-xorg, minimal-xorg-deskop) and/or edit rules like "X gimp" and so in the Config
18:45 < rxr> you could also just edit the target/desktop/pkgsel a bit for you needs
18:45 < rxr> you "only" need to start a new target (e.g. by coping an existing one) if you want to include more custom stuff, such as
18:45 < dragon_cz> ok, so copy & edit it to my needs? like when compiling custom kernel on BSD?
18:45 < rxr> patching the package sources for features and branding, and include your own other applications, config and scripts etc.
18:46 < rxr> when you just need other packages, just editing the one pkgsel slection rule file is enough
18:46 < dragon_cz> ok, thanks
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18:47 < dragon_cz> I guess I will have to write my target anyway
18:47 < dragon_cz> because my motivation for trying T2 was to get some framework for building my own "bloated-router" distro :)
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18:49 < sparc-kly> http://www.google.com/tisp/ <-- lol
18:51 [Users #t2]
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18:51 [ bendiken] [ d-marc   ] [ LMJ   ] [ R4gnar0k] [ sparc-kly] [ TobiX   ] 
18:51 [ Capey   ] [ dragon_cz] [ misl  ] [ rxr     ] [ Stelz    ] [ valentin] 
18:51 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 18 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
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18:56 < manoflinux> hello guys
18:57 < manoflinux> is there a guide to upgrading
18:57 < manoflinux> packages
18:57 < manoflinux> anyone?
18:58 < manoflinux> HELLO
18:58 < sepp> ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg :)
18:58 < sepp> hello 
18:58 < manoflinux> yeah but does that upgrade
18:59 < manoflinux> or just intstall a newer version
18:59 < manoflinux> and keep the old one
18:59 < sepp> that is what it does
18:59 < sepp> keep old, install new
19:00 < manoflinux> yeah but doesnt that eat disk space
19:00 < sepp> you can 'mine -rf old' if you want
19:00 < manoflinux> is there a GUI frontend to emerge-pkg
19:01 < manoflinux> or a one word command
19:01 < sepp> no
19:02 < manoflinux> when I do emerge-pkg where is it getting that package from
19:02 < manoflinux> the T2 website?
19:02 < sepp> they are build from the sourceode
19:03 < manoflinux> where do they find the source
19:04 < sepp> the .desc file has the version info, url to fetch it (or Download will use an mirror) ...
19:04 < manoflinux> ok
19:04 < manoflinux> say I am developing a distro
19:05 < manoflinux> and I want to make a new version of t
19:05 < manoflinux> it
19:05 < manoflinux> do I have to go through the build process again or can I just upgrade the packages
19:05 < rxr> depends if it is deeply embedded and you send a binary delta firmware diff
19:06 < rxr> or if it is more workstation / server use to ship the single packages
19:06 < rxr> btw. T2 tries to determine ofphoned files on update in /var/adm/olist
19:06 < rxr> but as it is not yet reliable enough we do not use the orphaned list to auto-delete after an update
19:06 < rxr> we might in the future
19:08 < manoflinux> so if is for a desktop/workstation i can just upgrade the packages?
19:10 < rxr> yes, a custom "mine" program is used to install the bianry .tar.bz2, .tar.gz, .gem, ... you might create with t2
19:10 < rxr> when you use tar.* you can even extract them with tar
19:11 < manoflinux> tell me about this "mine"
19:12 < manoflinux> everyone keeps mentioning it
19:12 < rxr> mine is the binary package manager we inherited when we forked off of ROCK Linux about 20000 Subversion revisions in the past 3 years ago
19:13 < rxr> we work on a closer integration with the T2 build system as it - so the difference between installing from source or binary is not that big
19:20 < manoflinux> wait so you can install software using mine
19:20 < manoflinux> or only emerge-pkg
19:20 < manoflinux> i thought T2 didnt use binaries
19:22 < manoflinux> oh wait im reading the handbook
19:22 < manoflinux> i get it now
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20:12 < CIA-18> rene * r23359 /branches/6.0/package/base/gcc/gxx_include.patch.cross0: 
20:12 < CIA-18> * merged r22875 from trunk: fixed g++ cross compiler to search for
20:12 < CIA-18>  the C++ standard headers in the correct sysroot location
20:13 < rxr> bendiken: -^
20:13 < rxr> you need to rebuild the cross compiler then: Build-Target -cfg ... -job 0-gcc
20:14 < bendiken> rxr: ok, momentito...
20:14 < rxr> and for gmp you need the libstdc++ in the build
20:14 < rxr> that is another commit, just the next second
20:15 < rxr> but I'm out of office in some minutes
20:15 < rxr> I hope to get the libstdc++ commit into SVN before
20:15 < bendiken> ok, the gcc build will take a while, anyway
20:16 < CIA-18> rene * r23360 /trunk/target/embedded/config.in: 
20:16 < CIA-18> * fixed the embedded target to create native binutils and gcc,
20:16 < CIA-18>  so that libstdc++ is available for C++ cross builds
20:19 < bendiken> building gcc now...
20:19 < CIA-18> rene * r23361 /branches/6.0/target/embedded/config.in: 
20:19 < CIA-18> * merged r23360 from trunk: fixed the embedded target to create native
20:19 < CIA-18>  binutils and gcc, so that libstdc++ is available for C++ cross builds
20:19 < rxr> bendiken: so - svn up and have fun
20:19 < rxr> should do fine, now
20:19 < bendiken> rxr: thanks a lot! will do
20:19 < rxr> I
20:19 < rxr> bendiken: please let me know if it still fails
20:20 < bendiken> rxr: wilco
20:20 < rxr> have to leave the office now, woman is waiting ...
20:20 < bendiken> don't keep her waiting :) ...I'll post results to mailing list. ttyl.
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21:24 < manoflinux> hey guys
21:25 < manoflinux> can I run gasgui as a graphical package manager
21:25 < manoflinux> anyone?
21:27 < sepp_> not as a very good one i guess :p
21:27 < manoflinux> why not?
21:28 < manoflinux> it lets you choose and install packages, and it resolves dependencies
21:28 < sepp_> hmmm
21:31 < manoflinux> why hmm
21:31 < manoflinux> can u give me a straight answer
21:32 < sepp_> i thought it works only with the cd
21:33 < manoflinux> well I think i read in the manual that you can run it
21:34 < manoflinux> can someone else answer my question
21:34 < manoflinux> besides sepp_
21:35 < manoflinux> :x  :)  :(  ;)  :|  [:) 
21:35 < manoflinux> HELLO!
21:35 < manoflinux> ANYBODY HOME
21:36 < sepp_> everyone else is away telling stupid april 1st jokes :p
21:39 < sepp_> and i dont know better
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21:41 < manoflinux> ANYONE
21:41 < manoflinux> PLEASE
21:41 < manoflinux> HELP ME
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21:47 < manoflinux> hi guys
21:47 < manoflinux> can i execute the gasgui after instalation
21:47 < manoflinux> to install packages
21:48 < manoflinux> CAN ANYONE HELP ME 
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 02 00:00:01 2007