T2 IRC Log: 2007-05-12
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Sat May 12 00:00:38 2007
02:00 -!- mtr_ [n=Michael@kobz-590ca8a0.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #t2
02:17 -!- mtr [n=Michael@kobz-590cbef6.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:17 -!- mtr_ is now known as mtr
07:55 -!- Capey [n=mipe@a88-113-93-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #t2
08:59 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
09:00 < misl> hi folks
09:04 < Capey> hi misl
09:07 < misl> hi Capey :)
10:12 < rxr> re
10:12 < rxr> moin Capey and misl
10:30 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:32 [Users #t2]
10:32 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ TobiX_ ]
10:32 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ mtr ] [ sepp ] [ valentin]
10:32 [ Capey ] [ idealm] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz]
10:32 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
10:32 < CIA-9> rene * r24030 /trunk/package/graphic/dcraw/dcraw.desc: * fixed dcraw checksum as the author replaced the file
10:40 < sepp> moin :)
10:41 < CIA-9> susan * r24031 /trunk/package/network/nginx/nginx.desc: * updated nginx (0.5.19 -> 0.5.20)
10:41 < CIA-9> susan * r24032 /trunk/package/develop/git/git.desc: * updated git (1.5.1.3 -> 1.5.1.4)
10:42 < CIA-9> susan * r24033 /trunk/package/develop/uncrustify/uncrustify.desc: * updated uncrustify (0.33 -> 0.34)
10:42 < CIA-9> susan * r24034 /trunk/package/base/gperf/gperf.desc: * updated gperf (3.0.2 -> 3.0.3)
10:43 < rxr> moin sepp
10:43 < sepp> hi rxr :)
10:54 < CIA-9> susan * r24035 /trunk/package/security/gnupg2/gnupg2.desc: * updated gnupg2 (2.0.3 -> 2.0.4)
10:59 < CIA-9> susan * r24036 /trunk/package/graphic/gpl-ghostscript/gpl-ghostscript.desc: * updated gpl-ghostscript (8.56 -> 8.57)
11:02 < CIA-9> susan * r24037 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/udev.desc: * updated udev (110 -> 111)
11:12 -!- tri [n=tri@pD9EE164E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
11:12 < tri> hi
11:13 < rxr> moin tri
11:13 [Users #t2]
11:13 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ TobiX_ ]
11:13 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ mtr ] [ sepp ] [ tri ]
11:13 [ Capey ] [ idealm] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz] [ valentin]
11:13 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
11:14 < CIA-9> rene * r24038 /trunk/package/network/wavemon/ (linux-header.patch wavemon.desc): * fixed wavemon for latest linux-headers
11:16 < tri> how can i install t2 from the 6.0-stable cd ?
11:16 < rxr> 6.0.3 is a minimal live demo
11:16 < rxr> you want a desktop, right?
11:16 < tri> right
11:17 < rxr> then take the 6.0.0 it was a classic desktop with normal text install
11:17 < tri> do i need both cds
11:17 < Stelz> or 6.0.1 AFAIK
11:17 < rxr> tri: yes, noth
11:18 < rxr> 6.0.1 was a minimal text install flavour
11:18 < Stelz> uh
11:18 < rxr> it does not contain too many GUI applications
11:18 < rxr> tri: t2 can build so many Linux (and soon other kernel) system flavours that we release every bugfix release as another target
11:19 < rxr> to fill the mirrors with many different flavours the people can pick
11:19 < CIA-9> rene * r24039 /trunk/package/network/howl/linux-header.patch: * fixed howl for latest linux-headers, likewise
11:19 < tri> i can follow this http://t2-project.org/documentation/installintro.html after booting the 6.0.0 cds ?
11:21 < rxr> yes
11:21 < rxr> this installintro is for text installers
11:21 < rxr> that applies to 6.0.0 and 6.0.1
11:21 < rxr> 6.0.0 is a desktop with kde and such, 6.0.1 a more minimal system
11:22 < tri> ah ok so i choose 6.0.1
11:22 < rxr> 6.0.1 might not even have X
11:23 < rxr> you want some graphic apps, don't you ?
11:23 < tri> yes, sometimes
11:23 < tri> but can't i "emerge" X after installing ?
11:26 < CIA-9> rene * r24040 /trunk/target/desktop/pkgsel:
11:26 < CIA-9> * removed ekiga related packages from the desktop target, as ekiga
11:26 < CIA-9> now even needs evolution-data-server!
11:26 < rxr> yes, but this will take some time :-)
11:26 < rxr> if you have DSL or so (you where in .de, right) just grab the 6.0.0, it will really make your life easier :-)
11:27 < tri> or could i use my installed linux to build t2 my self (http://t2-project.org/documentation/buildintro.html) ?
11:27 < rxr> yes
11:28 < tri> i try this - it might be boring to just use the 6.0.0 text installers
11:29 < tri> should i use the current trunk ?
11:30 < rxr> depending if you want the latest greated and ready to hunt down bug, or a stable, more tested "used in production" release series
11:30 < rxr> I usually recomment the stable tree for newcomers
11:32 < rxr> soo - puh, finally down to "just" 481 mails with 123 unread in my t2-updates mail folder :-)
11:37 < tri> i need to be root to build t2 ?
11:37 < rxr> yes
11:40 < tri> what does "basic desktop" main at the target selection ? kde
11:42 < rxr> you mean the preselection templates of the generic target?
11:42 < tri> yes
11:43 < rxr> it means only the base libs of gnome and kde and firefox
11:43 < rxr> just the very basics to have a function X people can select their additional stuff on-top
11:43 < rxr> if you want a kde desktop build the desktop target
11:43 < tri> ah ok
11:44 < CIA-9> rene * r24041 /trunk/package/base/raidtools/largefile.patch:
11:44 < CIA-9> * fixed raidtools to build with latest linux-header and glibc again
11:44 < CIA-9> (use lseek and not a custom syscall)
11:44 < tri> what does tmpfs for building packages mean
11:46 < rxr> to place the intermediate source and object files in a tmpfs (ram fs)
11:46 < tri> hm dowloading the sources maz take a while...
11:46 < rxr> this can consume hunderds of MB of RAM but also speed up the build a bit
11:46 < tri> thx
11:46 < rxr> if you are "always-on" you can skip the Download -required part
11:47 < rxr> Build-Target will fetch on-the-fly
11:47 < tri> ah ok nice
11:47 < rxr> isn't that written in the quick build intro on the homepage ?
11:47 < tri> right i missed that sorrz
11:48 < tri> sorry
11:48 < rxr> no problem
11:49 < rxr> if you find something missing in the homepage or handbook docu or even the T2 Config system and so please let us know to fix it permanently
11:49 < CIA-9> rene * r24042 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.conf:
11:49 < CIA-9> * removed -Werror during zfs-fuse compilation - with new c libraries
11:49 < CIA-9> and gcc (e.g. 4.2) there are some stray warnings that we do not
11:49 < CIA-9> want to abort the build
11:50 < tri> wups: "a full desktop build takes about a day"
11:58 < rxr> (on a 360MHz UltraSPARC it takes over a week :-)
11:58 < CIA-9> rene * r24043 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.desc: * updated zfs-fuse (0.4.0_alpha1 -> 0.4.0_beta1)
12:24 < CIA-9> rene * r24044 /trunk/package/base/binutils/binutils.desc: * updated binutils (2.17.50.0.15 -> 2.17.50.0.16)
12:28 < CIA-9> rene * r24045 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.desc: * updated zfs-fuse Status tag from Alpha to Beta, likewise
12:33 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has joined #t2
12:33 < nowYY> hi all
12:33 < Stelz> heya
12:33 < nowYY> the kde-mini-livecd is finished without big problems!
12:34 < nowYY> whats the default root passwort?
12:34 < rxr> kde-mini-livecd ?
12:34 < nowYY> yeah
12:34 < rxr> didn't I delete that 24 hours ago ...
12:35 < rxr> or did you build the desktop ?
12:35 < nowYY> rxr well i checked it out before that :)
12:35 < rxr> you complained it did not build and I removed it :_)
12:35 < nowYY> rxr well this time it is built
12:35 < rxr> heh lol
12:35 < nowYY> so far all seems to be ok
12:36 < rxr> the concept of the desktop is to not have any password, so noone can rmeote login with a known default password
12:36 < rxr> and allow to run root stuff via sudo
12:36 < rxr> however the mini-kde-live thing might not setup auto-login and sudo
12:36 < rxr> does it ?
12:36 < nowYY> rxr ok whats the name of the sudoer and his password :)
12:36 < nowYY> rxr i m testin it on virtualbox..
12:37 < rxr> the desktop default user is live
12:37 < nowYY> and xserver didnt start
12:37 < rxr> I really do not remember what I quickly setup for the mini-live in IRC at that time
12:37 < rxr> maybe you want to build the real desktop?
12:37 < nowYY> i see
12:37 < rxr> there all should be set up fine
12:37 < rxr> nowYY: btw. is virtualbox fast?
12:38 < rxr> I only have x86-64 here do I could not test it yet?
12:38 < rxr> what graphic does it emulate? cirrus like qemu ?
12:38 < nowYY> rxr as fast as vmware i d say
12:38 < rxr> im, interested, as qemu qith either kqemu or kvm is still a bit sloppy
12:39 < nowYY> i dont no much about it, i just use it, coz its free
12:39 < nowYY> and its german software :)
12:39 < rxr> :-)
12:39 < rxr> well they forked qemu and hacked it up :-)
12:39 < rxr> more or less
12:39 < nowYY> yeah bochs hacking..
12:39 < rxr> it emulates a Cirrus card?
12:39 < nowYY> dont kno sry
12:40 < rxr> ok - I'll give it a look when my trunk 32bit livecd finished in some hours
12:40 < rxr> (with gcc-4.2 :-)
12:40 -!- d-marc [n=d-marc@HSI-KBW-091-089-001-012.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #t2
12:40 < rxr> hi d-marc
12:40 < nowYY> rxr cool, u kno i build only livecd's coz i can test them easier with virtualbox..
12:42 < rxr> sure :-)
12:42 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:42 < rxr> so - need another screwdriver and lunch - cu later
12:43 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has joined #t2
12:43 < nowYY> rxr if u use virtualbox, dont use fullscreen, its buggy
12:44 < tri> how are binary only software like skye handeld in t2 ?
12:47 < nowYY> well ppl dont like binary only software :)
12:48 < tri> i also dont like it
12:48 < nowYY> so dont support it :)
12:50 < tri> hm that would be to simple... a lot of my contacts use for example skype and there is no free alternative software
12:51 < tri> thats why i need this f* software
12:51 < nowYY> i see
12:52 < nowYY> how about http://www.openwengo.org/ ?
12:55 < tri> ok sounds quite intressting but it is always pain to introduce "win only people" to a new software...
12:56 < tri> and there might be other binary only software like flash etc.
12:58 < d-marc> hi everyone
12:58 < tri> hi d-marc
12:59 < sepp> there are nvidia, opera and vmware packages and they are not free either ...
13:00 < tri> thx i'm just looking at there desc files
13:01 < tri> err conf files
13:06 < Capey> usually its just unpacking the tarball and copy the needed files to root
13:06 < Capey> in package.conf
13:07 -!- Capey [n=mipe@a88-113-93-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
13:09 < nowYY> sepp well ppl dont need any of them
13:14 < sepp> ppl want accelerated opengl
13:24 < nowYY> they want, but they dont need :)
13:43 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
13:49 < nowYY> tschö
13:49 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has quit ["savIRC - The Cross-Platform IRC Client"]
15:46 < rxr> re
16:13 < rxr> currently we have no skype package, but we could add one
16:14 < rxr> I guess soe far most people just install the binary as it for local use
16:16 -!- pdinoto [n=pdinoto@host42.190-31-207.telecom.net.ar] has joined #t2
16:40 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:13 < rxr> livecd comes up properly, the one built with gcc-4.2-rc3
17:13 < rxr> impressed
17:13 < rxr> no real regressions in the compiler so far
17:23 -!- TobiX_ is now known as TobiX
17:33 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
17:48 < pdinoto> hi rxr!
17:49 < pdinoto> I'm glad livecd is building ok.
18:08 [Users #t2]
18:08 [@ChanServ] [ d-marc] [ LMJ ] [ pdinoto ] [ sepp ] [ tri ]
18:08 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ misl] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz] [ valentin]
18:08 [ CIA-9 ] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ rxr ] [ TobiX]
18:08 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
18:09 -!- d-marc [n=d-marc@HSI-KBW-091-089-001-012.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"]
18:17 < tri> re
18:17 < tri> building finished...
18:29 < CIA-9> rene * r24046 /trunk/package/base/gcc/ (7 files): * updated gcc (4.1.2 -> 4.2.0-20070501)
18:31 < CIA-9> rene * r24047 /trunk/package/base/ (glibc/glibc.desc glibc32/glibc32.desc):
18:31 < CIA-9> * updated glibc (20061002 -> 2.5)
18:31 < CIA-9> * updated glibc32 (20061002 -> 2.5)
18:32 < tri> what is the diffrent between 2nd_stage and 2nd_stage_small ?
18:32 < rxr> _small is very much stripped down
18:32 < rxr> for low-end, old systems
18:32 < rxr> not too confortable to install from
18:32 < rxr> (and apparently not much tested these days anymore)
18:33 < tri> thx
19:00 < tri> i normaly use encrypted root filesystem with dm-crypt is there support for this
19:00 < tri> in stone
19:01 < tri> or the initrd
19:06 < rxr> patches would be very welcome
19:06 < rxr> we probably should add some modular initrd extension
19:07 < rxr> like /lib/initrd/ or so
19:07 < rxr> so that mkinitd copies /lib/initrd/ files into the initrd as well and runs them in alphabetical order
19:07 < rxr> so that those scripts can do whatever they want after the initial /dev population
19:07 < rxr> like raid or crypto setup
19:18 < tri> there is also no raid support right now ?
19:19 < tri> how is the initrd done ?
19:20 < tri> ah page 67 :-)
19:26 < rxr> heh, the initrd is not described in-depth yet
19:34 < pdinoto> rxr, what are the changes between t-resc 0.5 from 19-jan
19:35 < pdinoto> and what I would get by building my own?
19:35 < pdinoto> (in terms of structural changes, not package versions, I mean)
19:35 < rxr> no structural changes AFAIR
19:37 < pdinoto> ok then, so I will continue my work with that version
19:37 < pdinoto> until I can build my own.
19:37 < pdinoto> thanks!
19:40 < pdinoto> one quick question: the t-resc system boot and mount process
19:40 < pdinoto> is like this?
19:40 < pdinoto> - boot with an initrd, exec /init from there which finds
19:40 < pdinoto> the live source (CD in this case)
19:40 < rxr> yes
19:41 < pdinoto> and executes /init2 always from initrd.
19:41 < rxr> initrd is the normal T2 initrd
19:41 < rxr> yes
19:41 < rxr> and then t-resc comes with minit
19:41 < rxr> to be confiugured in /etc/minit/
19:41 < pdinoto> ah, ok. t2-resc is different from that point on, right?
19:41 < rxr> yes
19:42 < pdinoto> minit instead of full-blown init.
19:42 < pdinoto> thanks.
19:42 < rxr> after the init2 finished to setup unionfs/aufs the /sbin/init that is executed is minit
19:43 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/packages/minit.html
19:43 < pdinoto> ok, I see.
19:43 < pdinoto> thanks, sure more questions will follow... :-)
19:43 < rxr> you're welcome
20:08 < tri> just to be sure is initrd or initramfs used in t2 ?
20:10 < rxr> initramfs
20:12 < tri> mkinitcpio maybe nice to create the initramfs
20:16 < rxr> what is it doing?
20:16 < rxr> we are quite happy with just using cpio right now
20:16 < rxr> :q!
20:16 < tri> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mkinitcpio
20:16 < rxr> sorry wrong window
20:17 < tri> i also love vi ;-)
20:17 < tri> mkinitcpio can create the initramfs based on the provided conf file
20:17 < rxr> hm - we have many features of it already
20:17 < tri> it is nice and simple
20:18 < tri> who is the initrd created in t2 - with stone ?
20:18 < rxr> nope
20:18 < rxr> we have an mkinitrd package, that in fact is just a very simple shell script
20:18 < rxr> you run mkintrd as usual
20:19 < rxr> it inejcts all reasonable modules like ide,sata,scsi,net as well as udev etc.
20:19 < rxr> mkinitrd is also executed for any kernel build
20:19 < rxr> so when you build a default "all modular" T2 kernel you have a fresh initrd already
20:19 < tri> everything is included by default in the initrd ?
20:20 < tri> who to configure the "reasonable modules" ?
20:21 < tri> aha ok i think i found it http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/package/base/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.sh
20:22 < rxr> we should add some -scsi -ide or whatever options, probably
20:26 < tri> these are the build in modules right now: http://rafb.net/p/XatGkd25.html - right ?
20:27 < rxr> yes
20:31 < tri> but there a no plans to change the initrd creation etc. this time ?
20:32 < tri> so for dm-crypt support it would be better to patch the present scripts
20:33 < rxr> instead of pulling another distro's thing I would rather gradually improve the t2 ones
20:33 < rxr> that will also likely cause less regressions
20:34 < rxr> e.g. 1. allow changing the module pattern, either from config or command line
20:34 < rxr> with predefined ones like -ide -scsi and custom regex
20:34 < rxr> 2. add some hook concept to allow raid and crypt to insert code
20:39 < tri> just for reference http://phraktured.net/initramfs/mkinitcpio/
20:51 < pdinoto> rxr, still there?
20:52 < rxr> sure
20:54 < CIA-9> lars * r24048 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/50-udev.rules: (log message trimmed)
20:54 < CIA-9> * replacing %e (not supported any more) by %n as in rev r23990
20:54 < CIA-9> is not a clean solution for all devices types since %n is not
20:54 < CIA-9> necessarily unique. It seems that there is no adequate
20:54 < CIA-9> builtin replacement of %e in recent udev. Since nowadays there
20:54 < CIA-9> it HAL and the usage of symlinks for identification of devices
20:54 < CIA-9> types is deprecated we create only a single unnumbered
20:56 < rxr> pdinoto: ?
21:07 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p213.54.182.41.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
21:14 [Users #t2]
21:14 [@ChanServ] [ Dallur] [ misl ] [ R4gnar0k] [ sepp_] [ tri ]
21:14 [ BusError] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ rxr ] [ Stelz] [ valentin]
21:14 [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ ] [ pdinoto] [ sepp ] [ TobiX]
21:14 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
21:26 -!- sepp [n=sepp@p85.212.22.83.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:45 -!- pdinoto [n=pdinoto@host42.190-31-207.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:50 < rxr> ok, we leave the office, cu then
23:15 < tri> re
23:20 < tri> should i use rockplug or hwscan ?
23:27 < tri> jipy my own builed t2 from the svn trunk is up and running :-)
23:27 < tri> that was a simple one...
23:41 < tri> gn8
23:41 -!- tri [n=tri@pD9EE164E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
--- Log closed Sun May 13 00:00:40 2007
02:00 -!- mtr_ [n=Michael@kobz-590ca8a0.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #t2
02:17 -!- mtr [n=Michael@kobz-590cbef6.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:17 -!- mtr_ is now known as mtr
07:55 -!- Capey [n=mipe@a88-113-93-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #t2
08:59 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
09:00 < misl> hi folks
09:04 < Capey> hi misl
09:07 < misl> hi Capey :)
10:12 < rxr> re
10:12 < rxr> moin Capey and misl
10:30 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:32 [Users #t2]
10:32 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ TobiX_ ]
10:32 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ mtr ] [ sepp ] [ valentin]
10:32 [ Capey ] [ idealm] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz]
10:32 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
10:32 < CIA-9> rene * r24030 /trunk/package/graphic/dcraw/dcraw.desc: * fixed dcraw checksum as the author replaced the file
10:40 < sepp> moin :)
10:41 < CIA-9> susan * r24031 /trunk/package/network/nginx/nginx.desc: * updated nginx (0.5.19 -> 0.5.20)
10:41 < CIA-9> susan * r24032 /trunk/package/develop/git/git.desc: * updated git (1.5.1.3 -> 1.5.1.4)
10:42 < CIA-9> susan * r24033 /trunk/package/develop/uncrustify/uncrustify.desc: * updated uncrustify (0.33 -> 0.34)
10:42 < CIA-9> susan * r24034 /trunk/package/base/gperf/gperf.desc: * updated gperf (3.0.2 -> 3.0.3)
10:43 < rxr> moin sepp
10:43 < sepp> hi rxr :)
10:54 < CIA-9> susan * r24035 /trunk/package/security/gnupg2/gnupg2.desc: * updated gnupg2 (2.0.3 -> 2.0.4)
10:59 < CIA-9> susan * r24036 /trunk/package/graphic/gpl-ghostscript/gpl-ghostscript.desc: * updated gpl-ghostscript (8.56 -> 8.57)
11:02 < CIA-9> susan * r24037 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/udev.desc: * updated udev (110 -> 111)
11:12 -!- tri [n=tri@pD9EE164E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
11:12 < tri> hi
11:13 < rxr> moin tri
11:13 [Users #t2]
11:13 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ TobiX_ ]
11:13 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ mtr ] [ sepp ] [ tri ]
11:13 [ Capey ] [ idealm] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz] [ valentin]
11:13 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
11:14 < CIA-9> rene * r24038 /trunk/package/network/wavemon/ (linux-header.patch wavemon.desc): * fixed wavemon for latest linux-headers
11:16 < tri> how can i install t2 from the 6.0-stable cd ?
11:16 < rxr> 6.0.3 is a minimal live demo
11:16 < rxr> you want a desktop, right?
11:16 < tri> right
11:17 < rxr> then take the 6.0.0 it was a classic desktop with normal text install
11:17 < tri> do i need both cds
11:17 < Stelz> or 6.0.1 AFAIK
11:17 < rxr> tri: yes, noth
11:18 < rxr> 6.0.1 was a minimal text install flavour
11:18 < Stelz> uh
11:18 < rxr> it does not contain too many GUI applications
11:18 < rxr> tri: t2 can build so many Linux (and soon other kernel) system flavours that we release every bugfix release as another target
11:19 < rxr> to fill the mirrors with many different flavours the people can pick
11:19 < CIA-9> rene * r24039 /trunk/package/network/howl/linux-header.patch: * fixed howl for latest linux-headers, likewise
11:19 < tri> i can follow this http://t2-project.org/documentation/installintro.html after booting the 6.0.0 cds ?
11:21 < rxr> yes
11:21 < rxr> this installintro is for text installers
11:21 < rxr> that applies to 6.0.0 and 6.0.1
11:21 < rxr> 6.0.0 is a desktop with kde and such, 6.0.1 a more minimal system
11:22 < tri> ah ok so i choose 6.0.1
11:22 < rxr> 6.0.1 might not even have X
11:23 < rxr> you want some graphic apps, don't you ?
11:23 < tri> yes, sometimes
11:23 < tri> but can't i "emerge" X after installing ?
11:26 < CIA-9> rene * r24040 /trunk/target/desktop/pkgsel:
11:26 < CIA-9> * removed ekiga related packages from the desktop target, as ekiga
11:26 < CIA-9> now even needs evolution-data-server!
11:26 < rxr> yes, but this will take some time :-)
11:26 < rxr> if you have DSL or so (you where in .de, right) just grab the 6.0.0, it will really make your life easier :-)
11:27 < tri> or could i use my installed linux to build t2 my self (http://t2-project.org/documentation/buildintro.html) ?
11:27 < rxr> yes
11:28 < tri> i try this - it might be boring to just use the 6.0.0 text installers
11:29 < tri> should i use the current trunk ?
11:30 < rxr> depending if you want the latest greated and ready to hunt down bug, or a stable, more tested "used in production" release series
11:30 < rxr> I usually recomment the stable tree for newcomers
11:32 < rxr> soo - puh, finally down to "just" 481 mails with 123 unread in my t2-updates mail folder :-)
11:37 < tri> i need to be root to build t2 ?
11:37 < rxr> yes
11:40 < tri> what does "basic desktop" main at the target selection ? kde
11:42 < rxr> you mean the preselection templates of the generic target?
11:42 < tri> yes
11:43 < rxr> it means only the base libs of gnome and kde and firefox
11:43 < rxr> just the very basics to have a function X people can select their additional stuff on-top
11:43 < rxr> if you want a kde desktop build the desktop target
11:43 < tri> ah ok
11:44 < CIA-9> rene * r24041 /trunk/package/base/raidtools/largefile.patch:
11:44 < CIA-9> * fixed raidtools to build with latest linux-header and glibc again
11:44 < CIA-9> (use lseek and not a custom syscall)
11:44 < tri> what does tmpfs for building packages mean
11:46 < rxr> to place the intermediate source and object files in a tmpfs (ram fs)
11:46 < tri> hm dowloading the sources maz take a while...
11:46 < rxr> this can consume hunderds of MB of RAM but also speed up the build a bit
11:46 < tri> thx
11:46 < rxr> if you are "always-on" you can skip the Download -required part
11:47 < rxr> Build-Target will fetch on-the-fly
11:47 < tri> ah ok nice
11:47 < rxr> isn't that written in the quick build intro on the homepage ?
11:47 < tri> right i missed that sorrz
11:48 < tri> sorry
11:48 < rxr> no problem
11:49 < rxr> if you find something missing in the homepage or handbook docu or even the T2 Config system and so please let us know to fix it permanently
11:49 < CIA-9> rene * r24042 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.conf:
11:49 < CIA-9> * removed -Werror during zfs-fuse compilation - with new c libraries
11:49 < CIA-9> and gcc (e.g. 4.2) there are some stray warnings that we do not
11:49 < CIA-9> want to abort the build
11:50 < tri> wups: "a full desktop build takes about a day"
11:58 < rxr> (on a 360MHz UltraSPARC it takes over a week :-)
11:58 < CIA-9> rene * r24043 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.desc: * updated zfs-fuse (0.4.0_alpha1 -> 0.4.0_beta1)
12:24 < CIA-9> rene * r24044 /trunk/package/base/binutils/binutils.desc: * updated binutils (2.17.50.0.15 -> 2.17.50.0.16)
12:28 < CIA-9> rene * r24045 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.desc: * updated zfs-fuse Status tag from Alpha to Beta, likewise
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12:33 < nowYY> hi all
12:33 < Stelz> heya
12:33 < nowYY> the kde-mini-livecd is finished without big problems!
12:34 < nowYY> whats the default root passwort?
12:34 < rxr> kde-mini-livecd ?
12:34 < nowYY> yeah
12:34 < rxr> didn't I delete that 24 hours ago ...
12:35 < rxr> or did you build the desktop ?
12:35 < nowYY> rxr well i checked it out before that :)
12:35 < rxr> you complained it did not build and I removed it :_)
12:35 < nowYY> rxr well this time it is built
12:35 < rxr> heh lol
12:35 < nowYY> so far all seems to be ok
12:36 < rxr> the concept of the desktop is to not have any password, so noone can rmeote login with a known default password
12:36 < rxr> and allow to run root stuff via sudo
12:36 < rxr> however the mini-kde-live thing might not setup auto-login and sudo
12:36 < rxr> does it ?
12:36 < nowYY> rxr ok whats the name of the sudoer and his password :)
12:36 < nowYY> rxr i m testin it on virtualbox..
12:37 < rxr> the desktop default user is live
12:37 < nowYY> and xserver didnt start
12:37 < rxr> I really do not remember what I quickly setup for the mini-live in IRC at that time
12:37 < rxr> maybe you want to build the real desktop?
12:37 < nowYY> i see
12:37 < rxr> there all should be set up fine
12:37 < rxr> nowYY: btw. is virtualbox fast?
12:38 < rxr> I only have x86-64 here do I could not test it yet?
12:38 < rxr> what graphic does it emulate? cirrus like qemu ?
12:38 < nowYY> rxr as fast as vmware i d say
12:38 < rxr> im, interested, as qemu qith either kqemu or kvm is still a bit sloppy
12:39 < nowYY> i dont no much about it, i just use it, coz its free
12:39 < nowYY> and its german software :)
12:39 < rxr> :-)
12:39 < rxr> well they forked qemu and hacked it up :-)
12:39 < rxr> more or less
12:39 < nowYY> yeah bochs hacking..
12:39 < rxr> it emulates a Cirrus card?
12:39 < nowYY> dont kno sry
12:40 < rxr> ok - I'll give it a look when my trunk 32bit livecd finished in some hours
12:40 < rxr> (with gcc-4.2 :-)
12:40 -!- d-marc [n=d-marc@HSI-KBW-091-089-001-012.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #t2
12:40 < rxr> hi d-marc
12:40 < nowYY> rxr cool, u kno i build only livecd's coz i can test them easier with virtualbox..
12:42 < rxr> sure :-)
12:42 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:42 < rxr> so - need another screwdriver and lunch - cu later
12:43 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has joined #t2
12:43 < nowYY> rxr if u use virtualbox, dont use fullscreen, its buggy
12:44 < tri> how are binary only software like skye handeld in t2 ?
12:47 < nowYY> well ppl dont like binary only software :)
12:48 < tri> i also dont like it
12:48 < nowYY> so dont support it :)
12:50 < tri> hm that would be to simple... a lot of my contacts use for example skype and there is no free alternative software
12:51 < tri> thats why i need this f* software
12:51 < nowYY> i see
12:52 < nowYY> how about http://www.openwengo.org/ ?
12:55 < tri> ok sounds quite intressting but it is always pain to introduce "win only people" to a new software...
12:56 < tri> and there might be other binary only software like flash etc.
12:58 < d-marc> hi everyone
12:58 < tri> hi d-marc
12:59 < sepp> there are nvidia, opera and vmware packages and they are not free either ...
13:00 < tri> thx i'm just looking at there desc files
13:01 < tri> err conf files
13:06 < Capey> usually its just unpacking the tarball and copy the needed files to root
13:06 < Capey> in package.conf
13:07 -!- Capey [n=mipe@a88-113-93-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
13:09 < nowYY> sepp well ppl dont need any of them
13:14 < sepp> ppl want accelerated opengl
13:24 < nowYY> they want, but they dont need :)
13:43 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
13:49 < nowYY> tschö
13:49 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has quit ["savIRC - The Cross-Platform IRC Client"]
15:46 < rxr> re
16:13 < rxr> currently we have no skype package, but we could add one
16:14 < rxr> I guess soe far most people just install the binary as it for local use
16:16 -!- pdinoto [n=pdinoto@host42.190-31-207.telecom.net.ar] has joined #t2
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17:13 < rxr> livecd comes up properly, the one built with gcc-4.2-rc3
17:13 < rxr> impressed
17:13 < rxr> no real regressions in the compiler so far
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17:33 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
17:48 < pdinoto> hi rxr!
17:49 < pdinoto> I'm glad livecd is building ok.
18:08 [Users #t2]
18:08 [@ChanServ] [ d-marc] [ LMJ ] [ pdinoto ] [ sepp ] [ tri ]
18:08 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ misl] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz] [ valentin]
18:08 [ CIA-9 ] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ rxr ] [ TobiX]
18:08 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
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18:17 < tri> re
18:17 < tri> building finished...
18:29 < CIA-9> rene * r24046 /trunk/package/base/gcc/ (7 files): * updated gcc (4.1.2 -> 4.2.0-20070501)
18:31 < CIA-9> rene * r24047 /trunk/package/base/ (glibc/glibc.desc glibc32/glibc32.desc):
18:31 < CIA-9> * updated glibc (20061002 -> 2.5)
18:31 < CIA-9> * updated glibc32 (20061002 -> 2.5)
18:32 < tri> what is the diffrent between 2nd_stage and 2nd_stage_small ?
18:32 < rxr> _small is very much stripped down
18:32 < rxr> for low-end, old systems
18:32 < rxr> not too confortable to install from
18:32 < rxr> (and apparently not much tested these days anymore)
18:33 < tri> thx
19:00 < tri> i normaly use encrypted root filesystem with dm-crypt is there support for this
19:00 < tri> in stone
19:01 < tri> or the initrd
19:06 < rxr> patches would be very welcome
19:06 < rxr> we probably should add some modular initrd extension
19:07 < rxr> like /lib/initrd/ or so
19:07 < rxr> so that mkinitd copies /lib/initrd/ files into the initrd as well and runs them in alphabetical order
19:07 < rxr> so that those scripts can do whatever they want after the initial /dev population
19:07 < rxr> like raid or crypto setup
19:18 < tri> there is also no raid support right now ?
19:19 < tri> how is the initrd done ?
19:20 < tri> ah page 67 :-)
19:26 < rxr> heh, the initrd is not described in-depth yet
19:34 < pdinoto> rxr, what are the changes between t-resc 0.5 from 19-jan
19:35 < pdinoto> and what I would get by building my own?
19:35 < pdinoto> (in terms of structural changes, not package versions, I mean)
19:35 < rxr> no structural changes AFAIR
19:37 < pdinoto> ok then, so I will continue my work with that version
19:37 < pdinoto> until I can build my own.
19:37 < pdinoto> thanks!
19:40 < pdinoto> one quick question: the t-resc system boot and mount process
19:40 < pdinoto> is like this?
19:40 < pdinoto> - boot with an initrd, exec /init from there which finds
19:40 < pdinoto> the live source (CD in this case)
19:40 < rxr> yes
19:41 < pdinoto> and executes /init2 always from initrd.
19:41 < rxr> initrd is the normal T2 initrd
19:41 < rxr> yes
19:41 < rxr> and then t-resc comes with minit
19:41 < rxr> to be confiugured in /etc/minit/
19:41 < pdinoto> ah, ok. t2-resc is different from that point on, right?
19:41 < rxr> yes
19:42 < pdinoto> minit instead of full-blown init.
19:42 < pdinoto> thanks.
19:42 < rxr> after the init2 finished to setup unionfs/aufs the /sbin/init that is executed is minit
19:43 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/packages/minit.html
19:43 < pdinoto> ok, I see.
19:43 < pdinoto> thanks, sure more questions will follow... :-)
19:43 < rxr> you're welcome
20:08 < tri> just to be sure is initrd or initramfs used in t2 ?
20:10 < rxr> initramfs
20:12 < tri> mkinitcpio maybe nice to create the initramfs
20:16 < rxr> what is it doing?
20:16 < rxr> we are quite happy with just using cpio right now
20:16 < rxr> :q!
20:16 < tri> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mkinitcpio
20:16 < rxr> sorry wrong window
20:17 < tri> i also love vi ;-)
20:17 < tri> mkinitcpio can create the initramfs based on the provided conf file
20:17 < rxr> hm - we have many features of it already
20:17 < tri> it is nice and simple
20:18 < tri> who is the initrd created in t2 - with stone ?
20:18 < rxr> nope
20:18 < rxr> we have an mkinitrd package, that in fact is just a very simple shell script
20:18 < rxr> you run mkintrd as usual
20:19 < rxr> it inejcts all reasonable modules like ide,sata,scsi,net as well as udev etc.
20:19 < rxr> mkinitrd is also executed for any kernel build
20:19 < rxr> so when you build a default "all modular" T2 kernel you have a fresh initrd already
20:19 < tri> everything is included by default in the initrd ?
20:20 < tri> who to configure the "reasonable modules" ?
20:21 < tri> aha ok i think i found it http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/package/base/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.sh
20:22 < rxr> we should add some -scsi -ide or whatever options, probably
20:26 < tri> these are the build in modules right now: http://rafb.net/p/XatGkd25.html - right ?
20:27 < rxr> yes
20:31 < tri> but there a no plans to change the initrd creation etc. this time ?
20:32 < tri> so for dm-crypt support it would be better to patch the present scripts
20:33 < rxr> instead of pulling another distro's thing I would rather gradually improve the t2 ones
20:33 < rxr> that will also likely cause less regressions
20:34 < rxr> e.g. 1. allow changing the module pattern, either from config or command line
20:34 < rxr> with predefined ones like -ide -scsi and custom regex
20:34 < rxr> 2. add some hook concept to allow raid and crypt to insert code
20:39 < tri> just for reference http://phraktured.net/initramfs/mkinitcpio/
20:51 < pdinoto> rxr, still there?
20:52 < rxr> sure
20:54 < CIA-9> lars * r24048 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/50-udev.rules: (log message trimmed)
20:54 < CIA-9> * replacing %e (not supported any more) by %n as in rev r23990
20:54 < CIA-9> is not a clean solution for all devices types since %n is not
20:54 < CIA-9> necessarily unique. It seems that there is no adequate
20:54 < CIA-9> builtin replacement of %e in recent udev. Since nowadays there
20:54 < CIA-9> it HAL and the usage of symlinks for identification of devices
20:54 < CIA-9> types is deprecated we create only a single unnumbered
20:56 < rxr> pdinoto: ?
21:07 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p213.54.182.41.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
21:14 [Users #t2]
21:14 [@ChanServ] [ Dallur] [ misl ] [ R4gnar0k] [ sepp_] [ tri ]
21:14 [ BusError] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ rxr ] [ Stelz] [ valentin]
21:14 [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ ] [ pdinoto] [ sepp ] [ TobiX]
21:14 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
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22:50 < rxr> ok, we leave the office, cu then
23:15 < tri> re
23:20 < tri> should i use rockplug or hwscan ?
23:27 < tri> jipy my own builed t2 from the svn trunk is up and running :-)
23:27 < tri> that was a simple one...
23:41 < tri> gn8
23:41 -!- tri [n=tri@pD9EE164E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
--- Log closed Sun May 13 00:00:40 2007