--- Log opened Fri Sep 19 00:00:48 2008 00:19 < Ragnarin> that sounds nice 03:53 < hikenboot> mpp hello again...I am wondering which version should i download if my host system is x86 32 bit but my destination is x86_64 hardware (For T2 03:53 < hikenboot> ) 03:54 < hikenboot> oh mpp is gone anyone else able to answer the question? 05:29 -!- mpp [n=user@i53876B56.versanet.de] has joined #t2 05:29 < mpp> moin moin 05:29 < Morglet> moin 05:30 < mpp> hey Morglet 05:30 < mpp> what timezone are you in ? 05:30 < mpp> here in germany its 05:30 am 05:30 < Morglet> BST, ie. UK 05:31 < mpp> ah - cheerz mate ! 05:31 < Morglet> 0430 here, dunno why I woke up so early. No doubt it was excitement over T2 .... 05:31 * Morglet chuckles 05:32 < mpp> the early bird cathes the fly, the second mouse gets the cheese ! 05:32 < mpp> yea me too 05:32 < mpp> i've been doing some exciting stuff with t2 05:32 < Morglet> Ew, your mixed metaphors are going to implode :P 05:33 < Morglet> What kind of exciting stuff? 05:33 < mpp> yey you are probably right . i have done an optimized build for athlon64 05:33 < mpp> it really kicks a** 05:33 < mpp> did some benchmarking openssl gets boosted 4-5x faster 05:34 < mpp> gcc is a breeze - so faster t2-build process. 05:34 < Morglet> Oh, that's nice. I have an Athlon64 box running Gentoo atm, maybe I could find another disk and dual it with t2 05:34 < mpp> check with openssl speed before you switch to an optimized t2 05:35 < mpp> http://browse.geekbench.ca/ 05:35 < mpp> you could run this bench before and after to see the difference 05:35 < Morglet> Not sure if there's a bay slot free, as it's racked. Lemme look in computer room 05:36 < mpp> k 05:41 < Morglet> Buh, none free. I'll have to do all the t2 playing on Intel boxes 05:44 < Morglet> Once I get my iSCSI nodes running though, it'll release local storage on the athlon64 box, and then I can use the freed partition for a t2 dual. That's prolly some months away though, unless iSCSI and LVM is easy to do under T2. 05:46 < Morglet> Because this first T2 build is actually on the future iSCSI node box, so I'm killing two birds with one stone by doing my introductory playing with T2 on this particular machine. 05:46 < mpp> to be hones - i have absolutely no clue if it works and how - on t2 05:46 < Morglet> You mean nobody here is using LVM? 05:47 < mpp> i'm sure somebody does - i don't currently 05:48 < Morglet> Oh dear. That must mean that your initramfs isn't LVM-aware :-( 05:48 < mpp> sorry - ? 05:49 < mpp> the initramfs conains the lvm modules 05:49 < mpp> so it should work for booting up 05:49 < Morglet> Well typically moving to LVM means a lot of messing around with initramfs scripts, which is unpleasant. 05:49 < mpp> ahm.... it should be straightforward with t2 05:50 < Morglet> Hope so, hehe :-) 05:54 < Morglet> Still early days for me though. I'm still trying to figure out elementary things like installing packages. Eg. what's the equivalent of "emerge --pretend", so that I can see what the deps intend to install before the desired package? 06:06 < mpp> there are dependency files that come with each package 06:06 < mpp> e.g. /var/adm/dependencies on an installed system 06:07 < mpp> or t2-trunk/packacge/..../package/package.cache 06:07 < mpp> for the build host 06:09 < Morglet> Yeah, but how do you tell which dependencies are not currently satisfied in the install? 06:12 < Morglet> I assume that scripts/Emerge-Pkg will install dependencies first, but how do you tell in advance what it's intending to do? A package install could require 500 KDE packages to be installed first, for example --- that's something one needs to know. 06:17 < Morglet> Oh, maybe -dry-run does it 06:18 < Morglet> I feel writing a HOWTO coming up ... once I understand how T2 hangs together. :-) Which I don't currently. 06:24 < Morglet> The t2 "workflow" isn't obvious to me yet. In Gentoo it's just 1) find pkg candidates by string search on part of a name; 2) pick one; 3) check the its currently missing dependencies; 4) if they're sane and won't take all week, emerge the pkg. 06:26 < Morglet> I can't quite figure out the equivalent T2 workflow though, because I can't see how to ask (i) what is my currently installed pkg version and the latest one available? And (ii) what dependencies are not yet satisfied in case I decide to emerge the latest one available? 06:28 < Morglet> And some stuff just isn't making sense atm. Eg. I just emerged Lua, and it emerged dietlibc first. Yet, dietlibc isn't in Lua's dependencies. 06:28 < Morglet> So I don't understand what's happening. 06:36 < mpp> dependencies are generate on the fly 06:36 < mpp> have a look at the t2 handbook 06:37 < mpp> scripts/Emerge-Pkg installs on a running host and detects dependencies at runtime 06:38 < Morglet> yeah I know, but I was looking for how to determine dependency checks that fail *without* actually doing the install. 06:38 < Morglet> Trying -dry-un 06:38 < Morglet> Trying -dry-run 06:39 < mpp> ah. 06:39 < mpp> it filters the configure messages of a package 06:40 < Morglet> It worked I think 06:40 < mpp> so mostly these deps are suffice to do a dep check 06:42 < Morglet> Yep, thay seems to do what I want. Eg. -dry-run luasocket shows me two scheduled to install, but only one package appeared as an additional dependency: 06:42 < Morglet> checking findutils ... New version (4.2.31 -> 4.4.0). Added. 06:42 < Morglet> Yep, it's doign as expected. Cool 06:49 < mpp> yes i told rxr already that the dep files need to be updated 06:49 < mpp> i gues its comming soon 06:49 < mpp> you can replace them by yourself on your local svn tree 06:50 < mpp> mpp is satisfied now that his t2-build host is running on fully optmized athlon64 target 06:50 < mpp> :-) 06:50 < Morglet> Wow! OK, "Generic" is definitely not what I want, from the output of -list-missing lol, the kitchen sink is in there. I guess I need a custom one. 06:51 < Morglet> Gratz :-) 06:51 < mpp> yes but its quite easy 06:51 < mpp> i went with generic-minimal and added packages for a server-style target 06:52 < mpp> you'll see - it's fun 06:52 < mpp> best part is : the optimized build is really speedy 06:52 < Morglet> Yeah, enjoying it so far. The manual is kinda confusing because it's not a target user's manual, but a target creation manual, afaics 06:53 < mpp> agreed ! 06:53 < mpp> i also had to get used to some stuff - most things clear up reading the manuall and give it some shot on a test-machine 06:54 < Morglet> So elementary stuff like the workflow I was talking about isn't in there (except between the lines). Yet, one has to know that before one can sensibly build a target ... so I guess there's a manual missing. Or at least a chapter. 06:55 < mpp> you are right 06:55 < mpp> rxr welcomes contribs 06:55 < Morglet> Oh I'll contrib alright, unless I find a showstopper in T2. But that seems very unlikely. 06:56 < Morglet> And I guess in principle I could so something about showstoppers too, if any. 06:57 < Morglet> You may actually have a showstopper: not enough people in the community to keep up with the appearance of FOSS packages. 7 people isn't enough, by at least an order of magnitude :-) 06:58 < Morglet> Maybe that smilie should have been a ":-(" 06:58 < mpp> agreed . 06:58 < mpp> anyways t2 is here and i'm thankfull.period. 07:00 < Morglet> Hey, maybe it's possible to address the lack of manpower simply by having a conversion system from Gentoo ebuilds. 07:04 < Morglet> Question: to build a minimalist X11 system (eg. absolutely no Gnome/KDE desktop stuff, and only bare essential X utils), what target should I start from? 07:05 < mpp> generic 07:05 < mpp> minimal-x-basic-desktop 07:05 < mpp> gentoo import ? 07:06 < Morglet> Jeez no, not at all. Download shows it bring in all kinds of crap, like xfce etc 07:06 < Morglet> Generic I mean 07:06 < mpp> i gues rxr will reject - which totally makes sence 07:06 < mpp> minimal-x 07:06 < mpp> onlay 07:07 < Morglet> I don't see a "minimal-x" target in Config. 07:07 < mpp> hold on a sec 07:08 < mpp> generic -> package template 07:08 < mpp> minimalistic and x.org 07:08 < mpp> that should do 07:10 < Morglet> Neat, I set that, checking Download 07:12 < mpp> :-) 07:12 < mpp> make sure to have ccache activated for speedup 07:13 < Morglet> Eeek, no, that's as evil as hell! It brings in Gnome, KDE, and a ton of random X desktop applications. 07:14 < mpp> did you have the right template 07:14 < mpp> ? 07:14 < Morglet> Someone's idea of "minimalist X" is really bloated 07:14 < mpp> i don't think so 07:14 < Morglet> Generic + minimal-xorg 07:14 < mpp> there are some libs for dependencies 07:15 < mpp> in minimal x the surely is no kde or gnome 07:15 < mpp> promised ! 07:15 < mpp> you can grab an iso from dl2.t2-project.org to check on 07:16 < mpp> http://dl2.t2-project.org/stable/7.0-rc2/minimal-x86_64/t2-7.0-rc2-minimal-x86_64.iso 07:16 < Morglet> scripts/Download -list-missing | grep kde | wc -l 07:16 < Morglet> 34 07:17 < mpp> strange 07:17 < Morglet> That's the iso release I actually built this t2 from, yeah. 07:17 < mpp> so does it have kde ? 07:18 < Morglet> scripts/Download -list-missing | grep kde | grep base 07:18 < Morglet> download/mirror/k/kdebase-4.1.1.tar.bz2 07:18 < Morglet> download/mirror/k/kdebase-runtime-4.1.1.tar.bz2 07:18 < Morglet> download/mirror/k/kdebase-workspace-4.1.1.tar.bz2 07:18 < mpp> ah i see 07:18 < mpp> well have it the other way around 07:18 < mpp> take the minimal as base and add packages as you wish 07:21 < Morglet> I think there may be a bug. I did that (just Generic + minimal, no xorg), and kdebase is still in Download. That can't be right, surely. 07:22 < Morglet> I'm going to try to find where Generic is defined. 07:24 < Morglet> Maybe it's still cached from the previous minimal-xorg selection? 07:24 < mpp> could be 07:24 < mpp> try: 07:25 < mpp> scripts/Create-ErrList -cfg whatever -newremove 07:25 < Morglet> Is "whatever" something I have to supply? 07:26 < Morglet> Like the minimal-xorg, or the generic? 07:26 < Morglet> Or is the argument a filepath? 07:26 < mpp> what scripts/Config did you run ? 07:26 < mpp> it should be like: 07:27 < mpp> scripts/Confg -cfg mycg - otherwise its "default" config in wich case you can skip the -cfg part 07:27 < Morglet> K, skipping 07:29 < Morglet> Looks like it's bugged, because it thinks there's a cross-build occurring: 07:29 < Morglet> scripts/Create-ErrList -newremove 07:29 < Morglet> grep: build/default-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-i386-cross/var/adm/packages/: No such file or directory 07:30 < Morglet> ls -l build 07:30 < Morglet> total 4K 07:30 < Morglet> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2008-09-19 04:15 default-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-64 07:30 < Morglet> Ie. no "cross" :-) 07:30 < mpp> could you please remove the config/default 07:31 < mpp> and the build/default* 07:31 < mpp> and have a new config ? 07:31 < Morglet> Sure 07:31 < mpp> okay 07:31 < mpp> you haven't start a big build procedure yet ? 07:35 < Morglet> Nope, not yet, just individual packages and their deps. And just as well I haven't, else I'd have built Gnome and KDE too, lol 07:35 < mpp> right 07:35 < Morglet> OK, I've removed those two dirs, redoing Config 07:35 < mpp> okay you should be having your first build by the end of the day :-) 07:35 < mpp> what cpu are you building on ? 07:36 < Morglet> Core2 Duo 07:36 < mpp> cool 07:36 < mpp> should be breeze 07:37 < mpp> i also have a core2 duo machine 07:37 < mpp> it builds really fast 07:37 < Morglet> I see that the arch has become x86-64. The original install set it to x86 07:38 < mpp> ah yes 07:38 < mpp> you should choose precisely the target architecture / cpu 07:39 < Morglet> I think I'll change it back to x86, else flash don't work in firefox. 07:39 < mpp> hm... 07:40 < mpp> i did the performance comparison between x86 and x86-64 07:40 < mpp> ill stay with x86-64 07:40 < mpp> definetly 07:40 < Morglet> Not how I'd like the world to be, but there really is no option unless one wants to detach from the world by never watching Youtube. 07:43 < Morglet> Someone needs to drop a bomb on Adobe, damn annoying company, not releasing a 64-bit plugin simply because they don't want to. 07:43 < mpp> ill check on that later 07:44 < mpp> http://www.jamesward.com/wordpress/2006/12/06/flash-9-on-64bit-linux-in-2-commands/ 07:44 < Morglet> Looking 07:44 < mpp> i remember it working on 64bit 07:46 < Morglet> That's from 2006, and I recall it no longer working. But going to try right now on my Athlon64. 07:47 < Morglet> 1st good sign: netscape-flash is no longer masked on amd64 :-)))))))))) So his first step not needed. 07:51 < mpp> mpp recharged caffeine-batterys 07:51 < mpp> :-))) 07:51 < Morglet> Bah, you're cheating. Gonna recharhe mine now too :-) 07:51 < mpp> you do that ! 07:59 < Morglet> Nope, sadly Youtube still doesn't see a viable Flash player after that installation. 08:00 < Morglet> Pity. I like my Athlon64 box, even though it's a bit old (just 3200+). Would be nice if that worked on it. 08:02 < Morglet> Maybe I need a browser upgrade, going to try. 08:06 < Morglet> Bah, the binary ff 3.0.1 is a 32-bit ff, no 64-bit available. I really don't want to compile it just now, that'll take hours. 08:07 < Morglet> But I guess I can avoid the issue altogether by using the binary browser. Don't like that though. 08:10 < mpp> you could build the browser for a 32bit target 08:10 < mpp> and have the rest 64bit 08:10 < mpp> 32bit binary do run on 64bit machines 08:11 < mpp> so it's quite easy 08:12 < Morglet> Only easy if their use of external libraries is limited to those libs that have 32-bit "emul" versions. 08:15 < mpp> correct ! 08:16 < mpp> mpp is cross compiling a target from scratch 08:16 < mpp> there was an error yesterday with embutils 08:16 < Morglet> Well the 32-bit binary ff3 worked on the Athlon64 Gentoo, but really must replace it by the compiled version when I have time. And then Flash will prolly break again. Woes ... 08:17 < mpp> so i need to reproduce this one and report to rxr 08:17 < mpp> that sucks 08:17 < mpp> im mean the ff3 stuff 08:19 < Morglet> Well you may be able to do better than Gentoo there since you can define 32-bit targets more easily. I'll try sticking to x86_64 on this Core2, and we'll see how it goes. 08:19 < Morglet> If Flash breaks, I'll compromise my principles and run the 32-bit binary FF here too ;-))))) 08:20 < mpp> so good luck ! 08:20 < Morglet> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wIpeKGWdg 08:20 < Morglet> :-) 08:21 < Morglet> Hehe. Well things are looking very good here so far 08:21 < Morglet> Komuso is an amazing live player in SL 08:22 < mpp> ahmm.. sorry not my style 08:22 < Morglet> Talking of SL and 64-bit, I'll be wanting to run their 32-bit client on this too, so will be battling those emul libs, grrrrrr 08:22 < mpp> but you enjoy it ! 08:23 < Morglet> You don't like blues? Heathen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-) 08:24 < mpp> .... what can i say 08:24 < Morglet> Just apologize :P 08:24 < Morglet> (kidding, hehe) 08:24 < mpp> right. 08:24 < mpp> mpp is dob '74 08:25 < Morglet> dob? 08:25 < mpp> day of birth 08:25 < Morglet> Oh, gotcha 08:25 < mpp> so im more into classical / electronic stuff 08:25 < mpp> it has always been my thing 08:25 < mpp> but anyways 08:25 < Morglet> I play MIDI keyboards here. Using the word "play" loosely. 08:26 < mpp> do what you like - we all shoud 08:26 < mpp> right ... 08:26 < mpp> kinda freestyle ? 08:26 < mpp> improvised .. 08:26 < Morglet> No, just mean that I can't play, haha ;-) 08:27 < mpp> oh well you can spell the word play and midi - thats a start ! 08:29 < Morglet> I have broad tastes anyway, and there's plenty electronica in there too, at least in rock genre. Eg: 08:29 < Morglet> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/953 08:30 < mpp> whats rock ... you will now better than i do 08:30 < Morglet> Or if you prefer German ... 08:30 < Morglet> http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/953 08:30 < mpp> gotta be kidding me ... 08:31 < Morglet> Just the website text, not the music, lol 08:31 < mpp> yes ... so how's the build doin mate ? 08:31 < Morglet> I'm wiedergabing it ... 08:32 < mpp> you speak german... 08:32 < mpp> :-) 08:32 < Morglet> Nah. Did one semester's course, learned nothing 08:33 < mpp> you gave it try - that's what counts 08:34 < Morglet> My french is better, and my spanish is good, so not monolingual anyway. 08:34 < mpp> ola senior 08:34 < mpp> com es ta ? 08:35 < Morglet> Bien gracias, y tu? 08:35 < mpp> mui bien 08:35 < Morglet> muy 08:35 < mpp> or somethin like that 08:36 < mpp> speaing of spanish- i really like latin house stlye 08:36 < mpp> like on www.di.fm - house 08:37 < Morglet> Grrr ..... after the new Config with generic+minimal (no xorg), KDE is still in there. 08:37 < mpp> what have done Morglet ... 08:39 < Morglet> Maybe I'm missing some step. All I do is go into the right T2 dir (I'm working from t2-trunk now, though the CD install was t2-7.0_rc2), run Config, and then check Download -list-missing | grep kdebase. 08:39 < mpp> maybe you'd better ask rxr about that one 08:39 < Morglet> Is that wrong? 08:39 < mpp> Download -list-missing ? 08:39 < mpp> you don't need that 08:39 < Morglet> Teyp 08:39 < Morglet> Yep 08:40 < mpp> just scripts/Build-Target 08:40 < Morglet> Uhhhhh 08:40 < mpp> it pulls all the packages automaticly 08:40 < Morglet> Well see, the manual is bad. It says to Download after config 08:41 < mpp> yes -yes - get the positive side of tt2 08:41 < koan> I first did that too, but somewhere in the manual is mentioned that you don't need the download step since version 6.0 08:41 < mpp> the manual needs rework as dozens of other thins 08:41 < Morglet> Checking Build-Target options for the equivalent to -missing 08:41 < mpp> you don't need any options 08:41 < mpp> jsut Build/Target -cfg whatever (maybe default) 08:42 < mpp> afk 08:42 < Morglet> I *always* need to know what it's about to do, if it's going to be long. 08:42 < Morglet> Otherwise I can't make an informed decision whether to do it. 08:45 < Morglet> When I did Download -list-missing, I saved myself hours and gigabytes by not downloading KDE and Gnome. Information is priceless. 08:47 < Morglet> If Build-Target is going to build KDE and Gnome and their apps now, despite using "minimal" and not "minimal-xorg", then I'm screwed. And I have no way of knowing in advance because Build-Target has no -dry-run option or similar. 08:49 < Morglet> Erk, Build-Target it's bringing in a new kernel. I wanted to do that later. 08:53 < mpp> hm.. 08:53 < mpp> something is wrong with your config 08:54 < mpp> the kde gnome stuff could be more or less some libs 08:54 < mpp> at least it should be 08:54 < Morglet> Is the config in a file somewhere, so that I don't have to use that ncurses tool? 08:54 < mpp> can you post your config on pastebin.com 08:54 < mpp> of course 08:54 < mpp> its in config/mycfg/config 08:55 < Morglet> Super, looking at it 08:56 < mpp> yeah reading the handbook helps a lot 08:56 < Morglet> That's why I was using Download, because I was reading the manual ;-) 08:57 < mpp> could you paste your config so i can have a look @ it ? 08:58 < mpp> if you are ok with this 08:59 < Morglet> Looking at config, don't think it's sensitive 09:04 < Morglet> Yep, seems innocuous. Which is the preferred pastebin here? 09:05 < mpp> it's what i suggested 09:05 < mpp> you can paste post it as you like 09:07 < rxr> re 09:08 < Morglet> http://pastebin.com/d613fabaa 09:08 < mpp> good morning rxr 09:08 < Morglet> Hi rxr 09:08 < mpp> looks normal 09:09 < mpp> wonder why it pulls off kde and gnome 09:09 < Morglet> rxr, we were trying to figure out why Download -list-missing lists kdebase, despite generic+minimal not containing xorg. Any ideas? 09:12 < rxr> I think list-missing lists everything missing 09:12 < Morglet> It seems I have to sit here and monitor Build-Target, no matter how long it takes, in case it tries to build kdebase, since there is no -dry-run option. 09:13 < rxr> why would you want to set there ? 09:13 < mpp> yes 09:13 < rxr> sit 09:13 < Morglet> Because I don't want KDE 09:13 < mpp> Download -required should be enough 09:13 < rxr> yes, -required fetches all that is selected 09:14 < Morglet> I'm using the default atm, not -required. Should I abort it then, since it'll bring in KDE? 09:14 < mpp> yes you should 09:14 < Morglet> kk 09:15 < mpp> @rxr do you have anyone near you with access to a rootserver / big pipe ? 09:15 < mpp> maybe you could get the iso images temporary on a high bw connection 09:15 < rxr> nope, havent 09:16 < mpp> my rsync is choking on your bw 09:16 < mpp> okay 09:16 < rxr> well - just let it running 09:16 < mpp> allright 09:17 < mpp> so yesterday i took a closer look on the deps-stuff 09:17 < mpp> i have made preliminary analysis of the deps created and the scripts/ wich produce / update them 09:18 < mpp> as pointed out on irc yesterday , the number of mutual deps is missleading 09:18 < mpp> this is probably due to the pkgsel stuff 09:19 < mpp> normally 00-dirtree as root point of the dep graph should suffice. 09:20 < mpp> the dep files are populated way to much during Emerge 09:20 < CIA-8> rene * r30503 /trunk/package/scientific/mpfr/mpfr.desc: * updated mpfr (2.3.1 -> 2.3.2) 09:24 < CIA-8> rene * r30504 /trunk/package/graphic/libraw/libraw.desc: * updated libraw (0.5.4 -> 0.6.0) 09:24 < CIA-8> rene * r30505 /trunk/package/filesystem/libisofs/libisofs.desc: * updated libisofs (0.6.6 -> 0.6.8) 09:25 < CIA-8> rene * r30506 /trunk/package/security/libgcrypt/libgcrypt.desc: * updated libgcrypt (1.4.2 -> 1.4.3) 09:26 < CIA-8> rene * r30507 /trunk/package/xorg/xf86-input-evdev/xf86-input-evdev.desc: * updated xf86-input-evdev (2.0.4 -> 2.0.5) 09:39 < mtr> re 09:41 < mpp> hey mtr 09:41 < Morglet> Found a bug. Download is sensitive to the order of -required and -list-missing arguments. Bad flag handling. 09:44 < mpp> possibly 09:44 < mpp> if you're into bash take a look 09:44 < mpp> -required does the job pretty well 09:44 < Morglet> Also, the -required fails. "scripts/Download -list-missing -required" still shows kdebase, despite no xorg being requested. 09:45 < mpp> hmm... 09:45 < mpp> i'll check on anoter machine 09:46 < rxr> -I think -list-missing always shows the files missing from all poassible files t2 could download 09:46 < Morglet> Ouch, hehe 09:46 < Morglet> If so, another bug. I guess rxr would know? 09:46 < rxr> the -list-missing is buggy or you found another bug ? 09:48 < Morglet> Don't know if it's a new one: "scripts/Download -list-missing -required" shows kdebase in its download list, despite the config being "generic+minimal" (no xorg) 09:48 < rxr> Morglet: -list-missing is hard-wired to show all files T2 could download that are missing 09:48 < rxr> so if you have 0 packages selected, -list-missiing still shows every possible download 09:49 < Morglet> rxr: righto. So how do I tell what's in the set that WILL be downloaded? 09:49 < rxr> (don't care and let t2 do it's build work?) 09:49 < rxr> ok - well - if this is interesting for people we could indeed just improve Download to take the specified selection into acount for -list-missing 09:50 < mpp> i agree with rxr 09:50 < mpp> seems usefull to take that into account 09:50 < Morglet> rxr: can't "not care", if one wants to create a minimalist system. There might not even be disk space for KDE after all. 09:51 < rxr> t2 will not download it - it is just -list-missing not doing what you think it does 09:51 < rxr> you can take a look at the package selection in the expert section - custom package selection and then there is some "show current package selection" 09:51 < rxr> or via: grep '^X' config/default/packages 09:51 < Morglet> Thanks, looking. 09:52 < rxr> but: I can also schedule improving the Download scripts ASAP 09:52 < rxr> btw. patches always welcome 09:53 < Morglet> On a source-based system where it can take a long time to build things, and where it can take 20 times the space to build something vs the size of the end result, it's very important to know what WILL be done in advance. :-) 09:55 < Morglet> Patches from someone who is just beginning to understand T2 should NOT be welcome, I assure you. ;-) Although I'm happy to contribute once I'm beyond the day-2 noob stage ;-) 09:55 < rxr> :-) 09:55 < rxr> the Download script is not too complex 09:56 < Morglet> Well I can certainly sort out the noddy bug about it being sensitive to the order of its arguments. Lemme look. 09:56 < Morglet> Since that requires no knowledge of T2 ;-) 10:25 -!- hwinkel [n=hwinkel@port-87-193-170-219.static.qsc.de] has joined #t2 11:06 < mpp> hey Morglet 11:06 < mpp> how is building ? 11:06 < Morglet> Hola 11:06 < mpp> ola senior 11:07 < Morglet> I'm not building, I'm hacking the Download script. I guess I should have started the build, but have a one-track mind. 11:07 < mpp> capiche 11:07 < mpp> i mean comprende 11:08 < Morglet> 'o' on th end of that :-) 11:08 < mpp> yea mi spanglish is kinda messy - i know 11:08 < Morglet> It's probably correct in French though, if "je" can be dropped :-) 11:09 < koan> je comprends 11:09 < Morglet> Ah, no 'e', righto :-) 11:10 < mpp> koan mon ami 11:10 < mpp> sa va ? 11:10 < koan> ça va oui 11:11 < mpp> okay mpp switches to plain english 11:11 < koan> :-) 11:11 < Morglet> Hey koan, we're you on OpenMoko? 11:11 < Morglet> weren't* 11:11 < koan> no, I find it a very interesting project, but I don't have anything to do with it :-) 11:12 < Morglet> KK, someone with a similar name 11:12 < koan> ah Koen Kooi maybe? 11:12 < Morglet> 2nd name doesn't ring a bell no 11:13 < koan> he is a OpenMoko guy, I once heard a talk of him 11:13 < Morglet> Oh, koen! Yes! 11:13 < Morglet> Haha, no koan :-) 11:13 < Morglet> One letter can make a lot of difference, hehe 11:13 < koan> :-) 11:13 < mpp> hey anybody now's how to view chm files on linux 11:14 < Morglet> Chemical ML? 11:14 < mpp> koan is zen - zen is koan 11:14 < mpp> eeek 11:14 < mpp> chemical ... 11:14 < mpp> ill try 11:15 < Morglet> Chime was a format like chem ML, I used to play with that --- purely to display caffeine molecules on the screen to frighten bosses away :P 11:15 < mpp> hm... chm2pdf that seems just what i need 11:17 < Morglet> Oh, Microsoft help files. Never had anything to do with them, since the only help that works there is a grenade. 11:17 < mpp> yea tell me about it 11:18 < mpp> as the first window opens - storm blows into the hole system - afterstorm - clear blue screen :-))) 11:18 < tfl0pz> chmview? 11:19 < mpp> yea found it finally - chmsee or kchmview or ..... 11:19 < Morglet> Buh, I've been up 6+ hours and not had anything to eat yet, t2 frenzy is getting to me. Kitchen, biab 11:19 < mpp> finally apt-cache does do something meaningful 11:20 < mpp> cheerz 11:35 < Morglet> Has that flash-only mini-laptop that Dell announced to compete with the Eeeeeee been released yet? 11:40 < Morglet> Was just thinking that T2's target system would probably make it a good candidate to build systems for those wee machines. 11:42 * rxr is wating for an updated HP MiniNote ... 11:42 < rxr> with bigger screan and fater CPU than the aging VIA-C7 they ship in the current model (that get's too hot anyway) 11:45 < Morglet> Haven't seen the spec on that. Half my local friends have Eeeeee PCs though 11:46 < Morglet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hp_mini-note 11:46 < Morglet> Cute 11:48 < Morglet> Eeek, extremely expensive, 550 quid here 11:55 < Morglet> The laptop vendors are taking us for a ride I think -- they've turned that new very low-cost, diskless PC sector that Asus began into just another mid-range niche. 11:55 < Morglet> Create new buzz, then turn the prices up :-( 11:56 < Morglet> And they're probably all made by the same Chinese company for $100 anyway. 12:10 < Morglet> Taiwan makes 55% of the notebooks for the "quality brand" PC "manufacturers" in the west. Odds are the Mini-Note is made by Quanta or one of the others. 12:14 < rxr> I find the eeepc a little too fragile and cheapish ... 12:15 < rxr> the mini note is to some degree more solid and higher quality plastics and the like 12:15 < rxr> just needs a 10" screen and a modern CPU ... 12:15 < Morglet> Aye, I like HP sturdiness. Their calculators were legend. 12:16 < Morglet> My current top box is an HP, 8 cores in just 1U. DL140 G3 12:17 < Morglet> I'm not too happy with the Gentoo build I put on it. Hopefully I can work out a good target for it on T2. 12:17 < Morglet> It's intended as a virt'd server. 12:21 < Morglet> Blast, I have so many machines in the work queue: the two iSCSI boxes for storage backends, the fileserver per se, two firewalls to replace my current inflexible mess, and the new workstation box that currently has a dreadful Ubuntu on it. 12:21 < Morglet> Distressing workload. 12:23 < Morglet> Plus the virt'd DL140 which provides the front-end services. 12:23 < Morglet> 12:41 < rxr> sounds like much fun :-) 12:41 < Morglet> No, it sounds like much work 12:50 < Morglet> And we don't seem to have the modules and tools for my job #1 in the T2 repository yet, so got some importing to do before I can even start: 12:50 < Morglet> * sys-block/iscsi-initiator-core-tools 12:50 < Morglet> * sys-block/iscsitarget 12:50 < Morglet> * sys-block/open-iscsi 12:59 < rxr> oh - ok 12:59 -!- koan [n=koan@unaffiliated/koan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:59 [Users #t2] 12:59 [@ChanServ] [ Dallur ] [ felanha ] [ LMJ ] [ mqueiros] [ rxr ] 12:59 [ axionix ] [ dsoul ] [ hikenboot] [ Morglet] [ mtr ] [ tfl0pz] 12:59 [ CIA-8 ] [ Enqlave] [ hwinkel ] [ mpp ] [ Ragnarin] [ TobiX ] 12:59 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 18 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal] 12:59 -!- koan [n=koan@unaffiliated/koan] has joined #t2 14:13 [Users #t2] 14:13 [@ChanServ] [ dsoul ] [ hwinkel] [ mpp ] [ rxr ] 14:13 [ axionix ] [ Enqlave ] [ koan ] [ mqueiros] [ tfl0pz] 14:13 [ CIA-8 ] [ felanha ] [ LMJ ] [ mtr ] [ TobiX ] 14:13 [ Dallur ] [ hikenboot] [ Morglet] [ Ragnarin] 14:13 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 19 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal] 15:01 -!- tfl0pz [n=tfl0pz@mail.constalant.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02 < rxr> http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2007/09/googles-server-names.html 15:08 -!- mqueiros [n=mqueiros@217.70.75.226] has quit [] 15:52 -!- mpp_ [n=user@i53877879.versanet.de] has joined #t2 15:58 -!- mpp [n=user@i53876B56.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:11 -!- tfl0pz [n=tfl0pz@mail.constalant.com] has joined #t2 16:15 -!- n6pfk [n=urk@c-76-104-40-104.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #t2 16:16 -!- mpp_ is now known as mPP 16:16 -!- mPP is now known as mpp 16:21 -!- n6pfk [n=urk@c-76-104-40-104.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:36 -!- Netsplit calvino.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: koan, felanha 17:37 -!- Netsplit over, joins: koan 17:38 -!- Netsplit over, joins: felanha 19:06 -!- hwinkel [n=hwinkel@port-87-193-170-219.static.qsc.de] has left #t2 [] 19:42 < rxr> http://linux-iscsi.sourceforge.net/ 20:15 < mpp> hey rxr 20:15 < mpp> still online ? 21:25 < CIA-8> rene * r30508 /trunk/target/archivista/rootfs/home/archivista/usb-backup.in: 21:25 < CIA-8> * improved multiple shortcoming of finding a removable USB device 21:25 < CIA-8> during archivista USB backup 21:57 < koan> what is the archivista target? 21:59 < mpp> for scanning i think 21:59 < mpp> its on exactcode.de 22:09 < rxr> the archivista target is a product of Archivista, Switzerland: http://www.archivista.ch 22:09 < rxr> (not an ExactCODE one) 22:12 < mpp> ah sorry my fault 22:12 < mpp> hey rxr short tip for me 22:13 < mpp> scripts/Emerge ... -repository xorg 22:13 < mpp> should pull the whole xorg repo ? 22:13 < mpp> ah - hold on a sec 22:13 < mpp> the /etc/SDE-CONFIG/ needs to updated 22:13 < mpp> right.. 22:13 < mpp> forgot 22:14 < mpp> Emerge-Pkg fooled me into automagic :-) 22:14 < mpp> case solved 22:49 -!- dsoul [i=darksoul@insomniac.pl] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:09 < mpp> Hey Morglet 23:09 < mpp> are you with us ? 23:20 -!- mpp [n=user@i53877879.versanet.de] has quit ["good night - good fight"] 23:43 -!- DuckFault [n=DuckFaul@rrcs-71-43-244-114.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #t2 23:49 -!- DuckFault [n=DuckFaul@rrcs-71-43-244-114.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] --- Log closed Sat Sep 20 00:00:54 2008