--- Log opened Sat Sep 20 00:00:54 2008
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03:18 < hikenboot> can anyone tell me if T2 destined for x86_64 can be executed from x86 32 bit machine?
03:18 < hikenboot> or should I install the svn on a domU x86_64?
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11:16 < rxr> a 64bit system can not run in a 32bit one
11:16 [Users #t2]
11:16 [@ChanServ] [ Dallur ] [ hikenboot] [ Morglet] [ Ragnarin] [ TobiX] 
11:16 [ axionix ] [ Enqlave] [ koan     ] [ mpp    ] [ rxr     ] 
11:16 [ CIA-8   ] [ felanha] [ LMJ      ] [ mtr    ] [ tfl0pz  ] 
11:16 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 16 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
11:30 < CIA-8> rene * r30509 /trunk/package/base/lvm2/lvm2.desc: * updated lvm2 (2.02.39 -> 2.02.40)
11:34 < CIA-8> rene * r30510 /trunk/package/network/net-snmp/net-snmp.desc: * updated net-snmp (5.4.1.2 -> 5.4.2)
11:34 < CIA-8> rene * r30511 /trunk/package/multimedia/unicap/unicap.desc: * updated unicap (0.9.1 -> 0.9.2)
11:34 < CIA-8> rene * r30512 /trunk/package/security/libprelude/libprelude.desc: * updated libprelude (0.9.19 -> 0.9.21)
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15:29 < mpp> hey rxr
15:30 < mpp> re
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18:06 < hikenboot> can anyone explain to me how you actually select additional packages the interface lists additional packages but I see no way of selecting one...also how do i add packages not listed such as tinyx?
18:06 < rxr> you add rules, like X xorg-server
18:06 < hikenboot> where does it talk about the format of the rules
18:07 < rxr> note that "tinyx" (ake kdrive or the flavour you prefer) resits iside the xorg package and you need to specifically diable the other servers
18:07 < rxr> e.g. as done in the rescue target
18:07 < rxr> handbook and the Config help
18:07 < rxr> it's X pkg # to select
18:07 < rxr> and O pkg # to deselct
18:07 < rxr> ++ more advanced stuff
18:07 < hikenboot> hmm i didnt see that in the doc thanks
18:08 < rxr> you can usually also learn a lot from poking into the existing targets
18:08 < rxr> the handbook should document this parts
18:08 < mpp> hey rxr hey hikeboot
18:08 < hikenboot> it would be a nice feature to be able to feed T2 a text file list of packages in that format
18:08 < hikenboot> hey mpp 
18:08 < rxr> yes you can :-)
18:08 < hikenboot> how can I do that?
18:08 < rxr> targets do so - ls -lk target/*/pkgsel
18:08 < rxr> generally I would setup most in a target
18:08 < rxr> e.g. start a new one
18:09 < rxr> you can version and share it
18:09 < mpp> have a question about crosscompinig 64bit target on a 32bit host.
18:09 < mpp> embutils are missing 
18:10 < mpp> promised to have you a log file
18:10 < mpp> so here i am
18:10 < hikenboot> will be more than happy too ....however I do not see a target script...am I looking in th ewrong place
18:10 < hikenboot> you promised me a log file?
18:10 < hikenboot> dont remember that
18:10 < hikenboot> whats the question on cross compiling 
18:11 < hikenboot> are you looking at the lfs cross compile book
18:11 < mpp> no to rxr
18:11 < mpp> sorry
18:11 < hikenboot> oh
18:12 < hikenboot> rxr, where is the target command/script?
18:16 < rxr> target is not a script but the target configuration in the t2 source top-level dir
18:16 < rxr> t2-trunk/target/...
18:16 < rxr> mpp: I was about to leave the office ... :-(
18:16 < mpp> okay bye
18:17 < rxr> but post the link to the log and I take a look :-)
18:17 < mpp> okay enjoy your weekend
18:17 < rxr> what weekend ?
18:17 < mpp> yes - i understand
18:17 < rxr> so - show me the log :-)
18:17 < mpp> anyway i can help you let me know
18:18 < mpp> cp: cannot stat `/mnt/sdb2/t2-trunk.alpha/build/boostrap64-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-64-athlon64-cross/usr/embutils/tar': No such file or directory
18:18 < mpp> cp: cannot stat `/mnt/sdb2/t2-trunk.alpha/build/boostrap64-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-64-athlon64-cross/usr/embutils/readlink': No such file or directory
18:18 < mpp> cp: cannot stat `/mnt/sdb2/t2-trunk.alpha/build/boostrap64-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-64-athlon64-cross/usr/embutils/rmdir': No such file or directory
18:18 < mpp> -
18:18 < rxr> hm
18:18 < mpp> crosscompile and crosscc flags are set
18:19 < rxr> which target is that? unmodified (vanilla) generic/bootstrap ?
18:19 < mpp> yes generic bootstrap
18:19 < rxr> hm
18:19 < mpp> vanilla
18:19 < mpp> no prio
18:19 < rxr> strange - fails in install due file not there ?
18:19 < mpp> yes 
18:20 < mpp> embutils
18:20 < mpp> whatever they are needed for such a target
18:20 < hikenboot> rxr in target it says X squashfs-tools --> error: unable to compile whats that mean?
18:20 < mpp> okay rxr ill leave you to have a run
18:20 < mpp> ill post them on the ml
18:21 < rxr> hikenboot: what, where ?
18:22 < rxr> mpp: I just checked, in trunk/generic/bootstrap embutils nor dietlibc is selected on my side, is your error from trunk or 7.0 ?
18:22 < rxr> ah - trunk your paste says
18:22 < rxr> hm
18:22 < mpp> ill post it so you can head your way out of the office :-)
18:23 < rxr> there is a life outside an office ?
18:23 < mpp> i get your drift - 
18:23  * rxr just joking .-)
18:24 < mpp> thats how it always starts - so just take the ride
18:24 < mpp> noobs can wait
18:24 < mpp> ..
18:24 < mpp> moi that is
18:24 < rxr> is this cp of embutils stuff maybe happening inside another package ?
18:25 < mpp> hmm... could be..
18:26 < mpp> ill have to trace that stuff inside the build see who need embutils
18:26 < rxr> I mean which package is it failing ?
18:26 < rxr> or - maybe it is failing at the end of the build?
18:26 < mpp> mpp checks 
18:26 < rxr> trying to create an install image ?
18:26 < rxr> that could be ...
18:28 < mpp> damm luabash now complains about elf64 have to clear the src dirs
18:29 < mpp> ah oky
18:29 < mpp> its in the last stage creating output image
18:29 < mpp> Finishing build.
18:29 < mpp> -> Creating package database ...
18:29 < mpp> -> Creating output image ...
18:29 < mpp> cp: cannot stat `/mnt/sdb2/t2-trunk.alpha/build/boostrap64-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-64-athlon64-cross/usr/embutils/tar': No such file or directory
18:29 < mpp> cp: cannot stat `/mnt/sdb2/t2-trunk.alpha/build/boostrap64-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-64-athlon64-cross/usr/embutils/readlink': No such file or directory
18:29 < mpp> cp: cannot stat `/mnt/sdb2/t2-trunk.alpha/build/boostrap64-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-64-athlon64-cross/usr/embutils/rmdir': No such file or directory
18:29 < mpp> -> Unmounting loop mounts ...
18:29 < rxr> yes - ...
18:29 < rxr> as I estimated
18:29 < mpp> so this ist initrd stuff ?
18:30 < rxr> or oracled ...
18:30 < rxr> yes, the build is done - this is output postprocessing
18:30 < mpp> okay so i could check image building
18:30 < mpp> i know where that stuff lives
18:30 < mpp> so ill dig
18:30 < rxr> as the generic target package pre-selection are only package slections they can not santize the possible output types for you
18:30 < rxr> the build is all done at this place
18:30 < mpp> right
18:31 < rxr> if you select "no imageing stuff" for the output type this error will also go away
18:31 < mpp> yeah the pkgs/ are all there
18:31 < mpp> so i just skip those
18:31 < rxr> tweaking some playce to prevent this for newbies is not soo easy (aside ugly thing like if package-preselection == "bootstrap" then do-not-allow-this-and-that fi ...
18:31 < rxr> so - cu then and have fun
18:32 < mpp> byebye
18:32 < mpp> cudos to rxr !
18:34 < mpp> afks
18:34 < mpp> afk
18:34 -!- mpp is now known as mpp_afk
18:48 < hikenboot> rxr, would you have a few minutes to look over this package list and list the packages you dont think would be minimally necessary for a working system? I would appreciate it... Its a fairly small list contains abiword and a few xmms but a few others I imagine...It would be helpful but if you cant its ok
18:49 < hikenboot> http://www.delilinux.org/packages.txt
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21:01 < Morglet> Hmmm ... the deps checking might be a little too eager.  I'm emerging lshw, and it's bringing in new binutils, gcc, and kernel .... :-(
21:05 < Morglet> How come that Emerge-Pkg -dry-run      lists only a few things to be brought in, but when you run it without the -dry-run flag then it brings in the kitchen sink?
21:06 < Morglet> One runs with -dry-run to find out what it's going to do.  If it then does something different, that's wrong.
21:06 < mpp> for skipping updating use -missing=no
21:06 < mpp> sorry -missing=only
21:07 < mpp> it's in the handbook
21:07 < Morglet> So -dry-run performs a free -missing=only?
21:07 < mpp> im off for shopping bb in an hour or so
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21:20 < Morglet> The -dry-run option is listed but not described in the manual.  It would seem reasonable to assume that it does what its name suggests and show everything that will be done --- in this case "1) Do all downloads to bring the system up to date."
21:29 < Morglet> It's downloading "openmoko-logo.patch" .... and this is supposed to be a "minimum" install ;-)
21:29 < Morglet> I should have used the ultra pico nano install :P
21:32 < Morglet> What worries me is that root partition is only 4 gig, which is why I went for "minimal".  Now there's only 1.4G left .... will it be enough?
21:34 < rxr> -r
21:35 < rxr> what are you building ?
21:36 < Morglet> It's the root partition of a fileserver, in theory.  Although I'm just playing atm.  However, the root partition is only 4G precisely because it was intended for a mere fileserver, hence didn't expect bloat.
21:37 < rxr> what kind of target did you select?
21:37 < Morglet> This is experimental, so I'm happy to restart.
21:37 < Morglet> Generic + minimal
21:37 < Morglet> Shall I start afresh with a smaller one?
21:38 < rxr> no
21:38 < rxr> genreic minimal does not do anyhting with some openmoko splash patch
21:38 < Morglet> Hehe, indeed, I wouldn't expect it too, so was surprised that it downloaded it
21:39 < rxr> you are trying to use the Download scripts in was it does was not designed to do
21:39 < rxr> how have you run your Download scripts?
21:39 < Morglet> I'm not using download.  This is on an Emerge-Pkg
21:39 < rxr> (aside that you would not need to as T2 downloads on-the-fly what is needed)
21:39 < rxr> now I'm completely puzzled
21:40 < Morglet> I did an "Emerge-Pkg -dry-run lshw" ... and it showed just a couple of things needed.  Then I did it without the -dry-run, and it seems to be doing a Download of everything, despite that not showing up in the dry-run.
21:43 < rxr> hm
21:43 < rxr> never had such an behaviour
21:43 < rxr> and I also can not see how it should download an openmoko splash patch in a generic target config
21:43 < Morglet> That's prolly because your systems are up to date already.
21:45 < Morglet> Downloading :download/mirror/g/gta01-dehang-printk.patch ...
21:45 < Morglet> That seems to be yet another OpenMoko patch, since GTA-01 is the very model
21:46 < Morglet> very first* model
21:47 < Morglet> Oh dear .... it's also downloading every Linux kernel in the repository.
21:47 < Morglet> Downloading :download/mirror/l/linux-2.6.23.tar.bz2 ...
21:47 < Morglet> Downloading :download/mirror/l/linux-2.4.35.tar.bz2 ...
21:48 < Morglet> It downloaded others earlier, but off the screen now
21:49 < Morglet> Downloading :download/mirror/l/linux-2.6.19.2.tar.bz2 ...
21:49 < Morglet> How many kernels do I need? ;-)
21:50 < Morglet> This has to be a bug, right?
22:04 < Morglet> Ah, I think I know why it was downloading all that stuff:
22:04 < Morglet>     INFO: Trying to resume previous download ..
22:04 < Morglet> I started a Download yesterday, and cancelled it.  It seems like it's trying to resume it.
22:05 < Morglet> I'll try to find how to stop Downloads from resuming.
22:13 -!- mpp_afk is now known as mpp
22:15 < mpp> @rxr 
22:17 < mpp> you did if iptraf package mkdir -pr $root/var/iptraf
22:17 < mpp> suprisingly the directory is not created
22:17 < mpp> mkdir -p $root/var/iptraf
22:17 < mpp> damnd
22:17 < mpp> mkdir -r $root/var/run/iptraf
22:18 < mpp> mkdir -p $root/var/run/iptraf
22:18 < mpp> gee im brainfucked today ...
22:29 < rxr> no shell, not brainfuck
22:31 < mpp> right...
22:31 < mpp> dl2 still syncing
22:31 < mpp> were getting close ;-)
22:31 < rxr> Morglet: you can of course safely disable linux25
22:31 < rxr> 24 even
22:32 < rxr> the two 2.6 downloads are due to different version fo the "sanitzied" user-space headers
22:33 < mpp> funny xorg radeonhd wants to create /dev/null outside built directory
22:33 < mpp> the x stuff is kinda messy
22:36 < Morglet> rxr: well with Emerge-Pkg -missing=only  it seems to have stopped downloading stuff not in -dry-run, so better now.  I'm having to make little scripts to hold all these special arguments.
22:38 < rxr> some comprehensive list would be welcome to get a feeling which areas are "unlogical" for new users and we could improve
22:38 < Morglet> And I'll need to upgrade kernel to .24 at least, so the extra downloads served a purpose. :-)
22:38 < Morglet> Good point.  Does T2 have a wiki?
22:39 < rxr> not right now - but a mailing lsit
22:39 < Morglet> kk
22:40 < Morglet> The trouble with ML's is that items fly by and disappear from consciousness.
22:42 < Morglet> Whereas wikis give you the best of both worlds ... blow-by-blow in Discussion pages, and incremental consensus in main namespaces.
22:57 < Morglet> I see the saga of cdrecord continues. :-)  First Debian forked it as cdrkit owing to author being annoying, and now the original is called wodim ... and has even more annoyances than before -- spewing a megabyte of output per second to stdout. </sigh>
22:57 < Morglet> That guy seems to hate his users, lol.
22:58 < Morglet> (trying to burn something under T2 for the first time)
22:59 < mpp> yea i stumbled on that one too
23:00 < Morglet> Can you recommend an alternative?  I'd like nothing better than to not use cdrecord anymore.
23:00 < Morglet> Console app
23:00 < Morglet> Don't want UI
23:01 < Morglet> I'll see if I can find Debian's version
23:02 < Morglet> Cool -  http://www.cdrkit.org/
23:03 < Morglet> Oh wait, wodim *is* Debian's version!  Jeez, they've inherited Schilling's evilness :-(
23:06 < Morglet> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 2008-09-18 12:20 /usr/bin/cdrecord -> wodim
23:07 < mpp> yes i thought you knew
23:07 < mpp> i was also fooled by that
23:08 < mpp> but symlinks are to taken care of like in busybox or the like
23:08 < Morglet> No I thought it was the other way around, hehe
23:08 < mpp> ah...
23:09 < Morglet> Not actually sure if I'm missing some CD setup or just not specifying the device right, as it's a bit idiosyncratic for dev names.
23:10 < mpp> hm...
23:10 < mpp> could be due to udev crap
23:11 < Morglet> wodim -inq   does an inquiry fine, and gives me the right into.  So it must be me not specifying the right device.
23:11 < Morglet> s/into/info/
23:12 < Morglet> Found the right spec in boot.msg, cool
23:17 < Morglet> Nope, still spews out the megs of error message.  Might be udev I guess.
23:18 < rxr> I always used cdrkit's wodim the last 2 years or so
23:18 < rxr> never had a problem
23:18 < rxr> (ok - I never had a problem with cdrecord neither, despite the authors evilness ...
23:18 < rxr> and the bad thing - he is just a corner away here in berlin :-(((( )
23:18 < Morglet> Hehe
23:19 < rxr> I stopped contributing to the flamewars even 5 yearss ago in fears he would be around on my door some day ...
23:19 < Morglet> Well it's Debian to blame for these error messages, no Schilling.
23:19 < rxr> what do you get? it usually works for me
23:19 < Morglet> Fix your configuration.Unable to open this SCSI ID. Trying to map to old ATA syntax.This workaround will disappear in the near future. Fix your configuration.Unable to open this SCSI ID. Trying to map to old ATA syntax.This workaround will disappear in the near future. Fix your configuration.
23:19 < Morglet> That X 1000000000000000
23:19 < rxr> hm
23:20 < rxr> interesting
23:20 < rxr> maybe you specify the device diffrently than I ?
23:20 < rxr> I always used dev=/whatever ...
23:20 < rxr> usuall dev=/dev/cdrom
23:20 < rxr> y
23:21 < Morglet> Interesting, I've never done it that (very sensible and Unixy) way.  I've always followed the instructions and used bus numbers.
23:22 < mpp> bus numbers ?
23:22 < Morglet> wodim dev=ATAPI:2,0,0            for example
23:22 < mpp> like what is /dev for ?
23:22 < mpp> just for that !
23:22 < Morglet> In Unix yeah, but this is Schilling we're talking about :P
23:22 < Morglet> Trying your way :-)
23:23 < mpp> my way or highway
23:23 < mpp> LOL :-)
23:23 < Morglet> Well it's the sensible way, that's for sure :-)  Bus numbers is just crazy
23:23 < mpp> agreed
23:23 < mpp> mpp is just driving throug xorg / x11 repos
23:24 < mpp> welcome to world of mutual deps
23:26 < mpp> reminds me of buddha
23:26 < mpp> all thing depend on each other
23:26 < mpp> he was right - some time ago
23:29 < rxr> I seldomly have bus numbers
23:29 < rxr> and even on my SCSI boxes I prefer not to remeber the individual SCSI IDs ...
23:29 < mpp> what desktop / windowmanager is rxr using ?
23:29 < mpp> i mean himsel
23:29 < rxr> maybe cdrecord had better be programmed in brainfuck ...
23:30 < Morglet> Unfortunately, you're right, and so was Buddha.  But the software world can't afford that, something has to change.  We're on the road to ruin, dependency-wise.
23:30 < mpp> also for that the universe has a solution- when the universe collapses into a singularity .... LOLOLOLO ::-)))
23:30 < Morglet> rxr:  Hehe, that would explain why Debian couldn't take out the nasty error messages .... they couldn't make head or tail of the source. :P
23:31 < rxr> http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck_programming_language
23:32 < mpp> yes its stille active on freshmeat
23:32 < Morglet> mpp: it's well on the way to that end.  Pretty soon patents will reach a critical mass and we'll implode.
23:32 < mpp> kaboooom !
23:32 < mpp> cheerz
23:33 < mpp> no wait sluurp
23:33 < mpp> vacuum suckz
23:33 < mpp> thats implosion
23:34 < Morglet> Much of the dependencies problem actually dates back to the 80's, as we still use those primitive linkers.
23:34 < mpp> i know - as wise man said once upon a time - provisional solutions - sometimes for ever 
23:35 < Morglet> Aye
23:37 < Morglet> That was it, /dev/cdrom in place of daft bus numbers, and wodim is burning, yeehaa! :-)
23:38 < Morglet> Cheers guys
23:38 < Morglet> Or gals
23:38 < Morglet> Might have made a coaster, but at least it did it.
23:49 < mpp> scripts/Emerge -repository spits out dep errors to the max
23:49 < mpp> ;-)
23:51 < Morglet> curl spits out dud errors too during Downloads.  I upgraded curl in case it was that, but still happening.
23:51 < mpp> like what kind of errors ?
23:52 < Morglet> Scrolled off by Schilling's verbosity ... :P  I'll see if I can recreate
23:53 < Morglet> ERROR: CURL Returned Error 22. Please read the curl manpage.
23:53 < Morglet> ERROR: CURL Returned Error 6. Please read the curl manpage.
23:53 < Morglet> curl: (6) Couldn't resolve host 'gdb-6.4-avr32-20060621.patch'
23:55 < Morglet> And it should be said, one can't really blame curl for not resolving host 'gdb-6.4-avr32-20060621.patch' :-))))))
23:55 < mpp> you re right
23:55 < Morglet> Guess it's a buglet in script
23:55 < mpp> you bet on it
23:55 < mpp> just did a quick read on cddl and cdrecord
23:55 < mpp> to understand all the fuzz
23:56 < mpp> i think t2 is licensed nicely
23:56 < Morglet> Hehe, they could write a book about cdrecord and Schilling, it's been an eventful decade.
23:58 < Morglet> I just skimmed T2 license, said "Seems normal", and went to next item.
23:59 < Morglet> It didn't say "Every user will sacrifice a firstborn once per decade", so seemed reasonable.
--- Log closed Sun Sep 21 00:00:56 2008