T2 IRC Log: 2010-06-05
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Sat Jun 05 00:00:05 2010
02:26 -!- sepp_ [~seb@port-92-206-15-11.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #t2
02:30 -!- sepp [~seb@port-92-206-120-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
09:57 < rxr> re
11:11 -!- mpp [~mpp@2001:470:9a41:107:c977:f220:6511:87e2] has joined #t2
11:12 < mpp> moinsen
11:15 < rxr> 7moin moin
11:28 < rxr> hey mpp
11:28 < rxr> got an ext server, now, too
11:28 < rxr> still setting itup
11:28 < mpp> cool
11:28 < mpp> was about time
11:28 < mpp> ...
11:28 < mpp> i was about to ask you if you would consider setting up a wiki for t2
11:28 < mpp> and maybe a github repository
11:29 < mpp> so we can attract more people to commiting to t2
11:29 < rxr> you, git, I really hate
11:29 < rxr> it
11:29 < mpp> k
11:29 < mpp> what about a wiki
11:29 < rxr> doesn't really help if the main author is annoyed by the versioning system, right?
11:30 < rxr> I'm not so convinced svn is drawing away any contributor, i rather think problems are elsewhere
11:30 < mpp> go ahead
11:30 < rxr> lack of releases, and such
11:31 < rxr> others can still have git stuff whereever if they love it so much
11:31 < mpp> well at some point delegating is necessary
11:31 < rxr> yeah, like using github :-)
11:31 < rxr> well, for the most part I'm pretty ok with t2 progress
11:31 < mpp> let's skip git - how about a wiki
11:31 < rxr> more list and patches on the list and such
11:31 < rxr> we also had growing numbers of visitors on the website, until the great recession kicked in, ...
11:31 < mpp> forking a project and submitting back does work
11:32 < rxr> yeah, wiki and bug tracker would certainly be nice
11:32 < mpp> i would volunteer for the wiki
11:32 < rxr> sure, you could run it on one of your servers and see how it goes
11:32 < mpp> but trac combines both
11:32 < rxr> note that we had wiki and bug tracker in the past
11:32 < mpp> i missed that part
11:33 < rxr> thing is that volunteer effords sometimes vanish, or turn out not to be that used after all, ...
11:33 < mpp> i see
11:33 < rxr> think we had flyspray early, and trac later
11:33 < rxr> track was disgusting
11:33 < rxr> trac
11:33 < mpp> kk
11:33 < rxr> I'd prefer if we do not use trac again
11:33 < mpp> in wiki terms dokuwiki is very decent
11:33 < rxr> the effort to maintain it and the ammount of chinese electronic spam was amazing
11:33 < rxr> ^- still talking about trac
11:34 < mpp> yes i understood skip that too
11:34 < rxr> sure, you can setup whatever test
11:34 < rxr> btw. by setting up something I'd not expect new people to come buy
11:34 < rxr> few notice, cre
11:34 < rxr> care
11:34 < mpp> any suggestion of yours ...
11:34 < rxr> what really helps is reall PR, like I did since a decade stating at ROCK LInux
11:35 < mpp> or is the status quo sufficient for the future
11:35 < rxr> I pushed magazine articles, from english to german, from Linux Magazine, to FreeX, the German Linux Magazin, even some PC intern or so back in forth
11:35 < rxr> that really helped
11:35 < rxr> and is the reason why rock linux is not anymore, and opensde did not take off
11:35 < rxr> of course we can still do way better, but it's mostly human resources needed to have all this running
11:36 < mpp> yes - well the current t2 site is okay - but it does not attract people really
11:36 < rxr> what I also do (kind of agressivly) is notify upstream websites that we have packages of their stuff
11:36 < rxr> from cherokee, to gmp etc.
11:36 < rxr> that also helps a lot to get visitors to our sites
11:36 < mpp> got it.
11:36 < mpp> so i'll setup a wiki
11:36 < rxr> http://www.cherokee-project.com/downloads.html
11:36 < mpp> with dokuwiki
11:37 < rxr> http://www.multiprecision.org/index.php?prog=mpc&page=packages
11:37 < rxr> etc. pp.
11:37 < mpp> can you arrange another dns entry like wiki.t2-project.org ?
11:37 < rxr> since the rock days I'm spinning on PR, but I'm affraid I can not do more, I'm alrady in the office nearly each day
11:38 < rxr> yesterday I worked past midniht at home
11:38 < rxr> once again, ..
11:38 < mpp> okay how about delegating some issues to another person
11:38 < rxr> well, I can arrange that, but I have some more changes, I'll do that next week, so my "dns hosting" friend does not get annoyed :-)
11:39 < rxr> well, sure, anyone can take anything
11:39 < mpp> if you're not into that - there isn't gonna change anything
11:39 < rxr> run it, submit patches
11:39 < rxr> balzius is a great help with update and security patches
11:39 < mpp> i noticed
11:39 < mpp> but i am repelled by svn.
11:40 < rxr> well, the version control system really is the least thing that stand between cnotribution
11:40 < rxr> any project using something else these days anyway
11:40 < mpp> and i am certainly not going to submit upstream stuff to it.
11:40 < rxr> from mercurial, to git, to bazaar, to whatever
11:40 < rxr> there are so many zillions now out there it is impossible to agree on one golden good one
11:40 < mpp> k - than that's the way it's gonna be.
11:41 < rxr> and seriously, that is really not necessary, just import locally in whatever you have fallen and submit your results
11:41 < mpp> i#m okay with that.
11:41 < rxr> we are not as know because we do expert system software
11:41 < mpp> i would love to have a own for of the t2 repository
11:41 < rxr> it's not a colorful Mac OS X^W^W^W Ubuntu
11:41 < mpp> but i certainly cannot do it without permission
11:42 < mpp> fork
11:42 < rxr> and android and the zillion pseudo consortioms from lineo to linux mobile foundation whatever MeeGo and such steal most of our PR there days
11:42 < rxr> and linux popularity is declining anyway
11:42 < mpp> than you need adjust your strategy
11:42 < mpp> however....
11:43 < rxr> and from our web load I'd get to thing the recession let people concentrate of their main job, not fuzz around too much
11:43 < mpp> k k i get it bad timing
11:43 < rxr> http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=windows%2C%20mac%2C%20linux&cmpt=q
11:43 < rxr> http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=windows%2Cmac%2Clinux&cmpt=q
11:43 < mpp> so do you mind me setting up a github repo synced with the svn one ?
11:44 < mpp> and having branches of my own patches ?
11:44 < rxr> oh, not to mention every aunt tilli and her dog has it's linux distribution these days, ...
11:44 < rxr> and companies using t2 give not much back if at all, ... etc.
11:45 < mpp> chilling......
11:45 < rxr> of course not, publish your git tree whatever
11:45 < rxr> would love if I'd not have to cherry pick patched, but you sending them in though
11:46 < rxr> and honestly, since me founding exactcode getting industry projects has proven very difficult
11:46 < rxr> no matter how log prices we offered, most proejcts ended up being doing in-house anyway
11:47 < rxr> s/log/lwo/, ...
11:48 < mpp> sorry to hear that.
11:49 < rxr> Google Android certainly does not help a bit either
11:49 < rxr> anyway, I'm currently pretty happy with the T2 progress, new poeple, more list traffic
11:49 < rxr> before the recession web traffic was ever growing, I think it is currently recovering a little
11:53 < rxr> for attracting new people it historically payed of that I/we don't morron on the mailing list about RTFM, or patch format, I happily accept any change format, even tar'ed up, or zipped, attached or inline, if whitespace mangled I often even cut'n paste it manually, stuff like other people from Linus to x.org and lsuch would never do, but yell on any formating mismatch until the new contributer resends the zillons time ...
11:57 < rxr> but the biggest problem, as of any open source project, is finding people willin go spent time, work, submit
11:57 < rxr> how many people ever submitted t2 zine articles?
11:57 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/zine/
11:58 < rxr> how many people ever submitted know good hardware entries?
11:58 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/hardware/
11:58 < rxr> how many people submit patches, work and fix on issues?
11:58 < rxr> or even write documentation?
11:58 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/documentation/
11:59 < rxr> and it's all there, we publish the sources of everythign so sorted and clean, make it really easy to locale something, get in and change
12:00 < rxr> running an open source project is a) hard, b) huge effort c) not easy to sustain over a long time
12:00 < rxr> even the Linux kernel or Mozilla is mostly done by payed people, working on it employed, full time these days
12:00 < rxr> and the worst thing, especially in the Linux kernel world, most people give not back anyway
12:01 < mpp> so instead of complaining i am starting the github repo + wiki now !
12:01 < rxr> run it, hidden, unpublished, on a wlan router, set-top-box, smartphone near you
12:01 < rxr> :-)
12:01 < rxr> yeah, I also got some stuff todo
12:02 < rxr> and probably should go out, enjoy the sun, now that it once shines in berlin as well
12:02 < mpp> you do that .
12:03 < mpp> see you around
12:03 -!- mpp [~mpp@2001:470:9a41:107:c977:f220:6511:87e2] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]
12:04 < rxr> yeah, first I sync my new CD's onto the iPhone to have thrilling music withme, matching the theme :-)
12:14 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
12:36 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has joined #t2
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12:47 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has joined #t2
13:16 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:16 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has joined #t2
14:06 < CIA-29> rene * r36536 /trunk/package/base/atop/ (cross.patch install.patch): * adapted atop patches to build again
14:27 < rxr> super, e2fsprogs installs a shitload of junk
14:27 < rxr> and whz not themkfs.ext* anymore?
15:30 < CIA-29> rene * r36537 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/kvm.desc: * updated kvm/seabios
15:35 < CIA-29> rene * r36538 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/00-no-bios-date-host.patch: * fixed kvm/seabios not to change it's version with very build and host
15:59 < rxr> ah, loving this transfers: 10% 51.11MB/s 0:09:49
15:59 < rxr> ok, toilet, coffee and off we go, cu then
18:41 -!- CIA-29 [cia@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:26 -!- CIA-29 [cia@208.69.182.149] has joined #t2
--- Log closed Sun Jun 06 00:00:05 2010
02:26 -!- sepp_ [~seb@port-92-206-15-11.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #t2
02:30 -!- sepp [~seb@port-92-206-120-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
09:57 < rxr> re
11:11 -!- mpp [~mpp@2001:470:9a41:107:c977:f220:6511:87e2] has joined #t2
11:12 < mpp> moinsen
11:15 < rxr> 7moin moin
11:28 < rxr> hey mpp
11:28 < rxr> got an ext server, now, too
11:28 < rxr> still setting itup
11:28 < mpp> cool
11:28 < mpp> was about time
11:28 < mpp> ...
11:28 < mpp> i was about to ask you if you would consider setting up a wiki for t2
11:28 < mpp> and maybe a github repository
11:29 < mpp> so we can attract more people to commiting to t2
11:29 < rxr> you, git, I really hate
11:29 < rxr> it
11:29 < mpp> k
11:29 < mpp> what about a wiki
11:29 < rxr> doesn't really help if the main author is annoyed by the versioning system, right?
11:30 < rxr> I'm not so convinced svn is drawing away any contributor, i rather think problems are elsewhere
11:30 < mpp> go ahead
11:30 < rxr> lack of releases, and such
11:31 < rxr> others can still have git stuff whereever if they love it so much
11:31 < mpp> well at some point delegating is necessary
11:31 < rxr> yeah, like using github :-)
11:31 < rxr> well, for the most part I'm pretty ok with t2 progress
11:31 < mpp> let's skip git - how about a wiki
11:31 < rxr> more list and patches on the list and such
11:31 < rxr> we also had growing numbers of visitors on the website, until the great recession kicked in, ...
11:31 < mpp> forking a project and submitting back does work
11:32 < rxr> yeah, wiki and bug tracker would certainly be nice
11:32 < mpp> i would volunteer for the wiki
11:32 < rxr> sure, you could run it on one of your servers and see how it goes
11:32 < mpp> but trac combines both
11:32 < rxr> note that we had wiki and bug tracker in the past
11:32 < mpp> i missed that part
11:33 < rxr> thing is that volunteer effords sometimes vanish, or turn out not to be that used after all, ...
11:33 < mpp> i see
11:33 < rxr> think we had flyspray early, and trac later
11:33 < rxr> track was disgusting
11:33 < rxr> trac
11:33 < mpp> kk
11:33 < rxr> I'd prefer if we do not use trac again
11:33 < mpp> in wiki terms dokuwiki is very decent
11:33 < rxr> the effort to maintain it and the ammount of chinese electronic spam was amazing
11:33 < rxr> ^- still talking about trac
11:34 < mpp> yes i understood skip that too
11:34 < rxr> sure, you can setup whatever test
11:34 < rxr> btw. by setting up something I'd not expect new people to come buy
11:34 < rxr> few notice, cre
11:34 < rxr> care
11:34 < mpp> any suggestion of yours ...
11:34 < rxr> what really helps is reall PR, like I did since a decade stating at ROCK LInux
11:35 < mpp> or is the status quo sufficient for the future
11:35 < rxr> I pushed magazine articles, from english to german, from Linux Magazine, to FreeX, the German Linux Magazin, even some PC intern or so back in forth
11:35 < rxr> that really helped
11:35 < rxr> and is the reason why rock linux is not anymore, and opensde did not take off
11:35 < rxr> of course we can still do way better, but it's mostly human resources needed to have all this running
11:36 < mpp> yes - well the current t2 site is okay - but it does not attract people really
11:36 < rxr> what I also do (kind of agressivly) is notify upstream websites that we have packages of their stuff
11:36 < rxr> from cherokee, to gmp etc.
11:36 < rxr> that also helps a lot to get visitors to our sites
11:36 < mpp> got it.
11:36 < mpp> so i'll setup a wiki
11:36 < rxr> http://www.cherokee-project.com/downloads.html
11:36 < mpp> with dokuwiki
11:37 < rxr> http://www.multiprecision.org/index.php?prog=mpc&page=packages
11:37 < rxr> etc. pp.
11:37 < mpp> can you arrange another dns entry like wiki.t2-project.org ?
11:37 < rxr> since the rock days I'm spinning on PR, but I'm affraid I can not do more, I'm alrady in the office nearly each day
11:38 < rxr> yesterday I worked past midniht at home
11:38 < rxr> once again, ..
11:38 < mpp> okay how about delegating some issues to another person
11:38 < rxr> well, I can arrange that, but I have some more changes, I'll do that next week, so my "dns hosting" friend does not get annoyed :-)
11:39 < rxr> well, sure, anyone can take anything
11:39 < mpp> if you're not into that - there isn't gonna change anything
11:39 < rxr> run it, submit patches
11:39 < rxr> balzius is a great help with update and security patches
11:39 < mpp> i noticed
11:39 < mpp> but i am repelled by svn.
11:40 < rxr> well, the version control system really is the least thing that stand between cnotribution
11:40 < rxr> any project using something else these days anyway
11:40 < mpp> and i am certainly not going to submit upstream stuff to it.
11:40 < rxr> from mercurial, to git, to bazaar, to whatever
11:40 < rxr> there are so many zillions now out there it is impossible to agree on one golden good one
11:40 < mpp> k - than that's the way it's gonna be.
11:41 < rxr> and seriously, that is really not necessary, just import locally in whatever you have fallen and submit your results
11:41 < mpp> i#m okay with that.
11:41 < rxr> we are not as know because we do expert system software
11:41 < mpp> i would love to have a own for of the t2 repository
11:41 < rxr> it's not a colorful Mac OS X^W^W^W Ubuntu
11:41 < mpp> but i certainly cannot do it without permission
11:42 < mpp> fork
11:42 < rxr> and android and the zillion pseudo consortioms from lineo to linux mobile foundation whatever MeeGo and such steal most of our PR there days
11:42 < rxr> and linux popularity is declining anyway
11:42 < mpp> than you need adjust your strategy
11:42 < mpp> however....
11:43 < rxr> and from our web load I'd get to thing the recession let people concentrate of their main job, not fuzz around too much
11:43 < mpp> k k i get it bad timing
11:43 < rxr> http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=windows%2C%20mac%2C%20linux&cmpt=q
11:43 < rxr> http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=windows%2Cmac%2Clinux&cmpt=q
11:43 < mpp> so do you mind me setting up a github repo synced with the svn one ?
11:44 < mpp> and having branches of my own patches ?
11:44 < rxr> oh, not to mention every aunt tilli and her dog has it's linux distribution these days, ...
11:44 < rxr> and companies using t2 give not much back if at all, ... etc.
11:45 < mpp> chilling......
11:45 < rxr> of course not, publish your git tree whatever
11:45 < rxr> would love if I'd not have to cherry pick patched, but you sending them in though
11:46 < rxr> and honestly, since me founding exactcode getting industry projects has proven very difficult
11:46 < rxr> no matter how log prices we offered, most proejcts ended up being doing in-house anyway
11:47 < rxr> s/log/lwo/, ...
11:48 < mpp> sorry to hear that.
11:49 < rxr> Google Android certainly does not help a bit either
11:49 < rxr> anyway, I'm currently pretty happy with the T2 progress, new poeple, more list traffic
11:49 < rxr> before the recession web traffic was ever growing, I think it is currently recovering a little
11:53 < rxr> for attracting new people it historically payed of that I/we don't morron on the mailing list about RTFM, or patch format, I happily accept any change format, even tar'ed up, or zipped, attached or inline, if whitespace mangled I often even cut'n paste it manually, stuff like other people from Linus to x.org and lsuch would never do, but yell on any formating mismatch until the new contributer resends the zillons time ...
11:57 < rxr> but the biggest problem, as of any open source project, is finding people willin go spent time, work, submit
11:57 < rxr> how many people ever submitted t2 zine articles?
11:57 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/zine/
11:58 < rxr> how many people ever submitted know good hardware entries?
11:58 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/hardware/
11:58 < rxr> how many people submit patches, work and fix on issues?
11:58 < rxr> or even write documentation?
11:58 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/documentation/
11:59 < rxr> and it's all there, we publish the sources of everythign so sorted and clean, make it really easy to locale something, get in and change
12:00 < rxr> running an open source project is a) hard, b) huge effort c) not easy to sustain over a long time
12:00 < rxr> even the Linux kernel or Mozilla is mostly done by payed people, working on it employed, full time these days
12:00 < rxr> and the worst thing, especially in the Linux kernel world, most people give not back anyway
12:01 < mpp> so instead of complaining i am starting the github repo + wiki now !
12:01 < rxr> run it, hidden, unpublished, on a wlan router, set-top-box, smartphone near you
12:01 < rxr> :-)
12:01 < rxr> yeah, I also got some stuff todo
12:02 < rxr> and probably should go out, enjoy the sun, now that it once shines in berlin as well
12:02 < mpp> you do that .
12:03 < mpp> see you around
12:03 -!- mpp [~mpp@2001:470:9a41:107:c977:f220:6511:87e2] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]
12:04 < rxr> yeah, first I sync my new CD's onto the iPhone to have thrilling music withme, matching the theme :-)
12:14 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
12:36 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has joined #t2
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12:47 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has joined #t2
13:16 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:16 -!- Stealth [stealth@sourcemage/guru/stealth] has joined #t2
14:06 < CIA-29> rene * r36536 /trunk/package/base/atop/ (cross.patch install.patch): * adapted atop patches to build again
14:27 < rxr> super, e2fsprogs installs a shitload of junk
14:27 < rxr> and whz not themkfs.ext* anymore?
15:30 < CIA-29> rene * r36537 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/kvm.desc: * updated kvm/seabios
15:35 < CIA-29> rene * r36538 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/00-no-bios-date-host.patch: * fixed kvm/seabios not to change it's version with very build and host
15:59 < rxr> ah, loving this transfers: 10% 51.11MB/s 0:09:49
15:59 < rxr> ok, toilet, coffee and off we go, cu then
18:41 -!- CIA-29 [cia@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:26 -!- CIA-29 [cia@208.69.182.149] has joined #t2
--- Log closed Sun Jun 06 00:00:05 2010