T2 IRC Log: 2012-03-05
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Mon Mar 05 00:00:20 2012
01:15 -!- shevy [~shevy@178-190-72-77.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
01:28 -!- shevy [~shevy@88-117-33-21.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #t2
07:06 -!- mjungwirth2 [~mjungwirt@213.174.234.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:06 -!- mjungwirth [~mjungwirt@213.174.234.68] has joined #t2
10:19 < rxr> moin
11:20 < CIA-13> rene * r40285 /trunk/package/xorg/libfontenc/libfontenc.desc: * updated libfontenc (1.1.0 -> 1.1.1)
11:20 < CIA-13> rene * r40284 /trunk/package/xorg/inputproto/inputproto.desc: * updated inputproto (2.1 -> 2.2)
11:20 < CIA-13> rene * r40286 /trunk/package/xorg/libfs/libfs.desc: * updated libfs (1.0.3 -> 1.0.4)
11:21 < CIA-13> rene * r40287 /trunk/package/filesystem/lvm2/lvm2.desc: * updated lvm2 (2.02.93 -> 2.02.94)
11:21 < CIA-13> rene * r40288 /trunk/package/base/grep/grep.desc: * updated grep (2.10 -> 2.11)
11:34 -!- T-One [~T-One@213.33.91.2] has joined #t2
13:55 < rxr> 0re
13:55 < CIA-13> rene * r40289 /trunk/package/emulators/wine/wine.desc: * updated wine (1.4-rc5 -> 1.4-rc6)
13:56 < CIA-13> rene * r40290 /trunk/package/mail/nullmailer/nullmailer.desc: * updated nullmailer (1.05 -> 1.06)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40291 /trunk/package/xorg/libpciaccess/libpciaccess.desc: * updated libpciaccess (0.12.1 -> 0.13)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40292 /trunk/package/games/gnuchess/gnuchess.desc: * updated gnuchess (6.0.1 -> 6.0.2)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40293 /trunk/package/xorg/libsm/libsm.desc: * updated libsm (1.2.0 -> 1.2.1)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40294 /trunk/package/xorg/libice/libice.desc: * updated libice (1.0.7 -> 1.0.8)
13:58 < CIA-13> rene * r40295 /trunk/package/xorg/libxfont/libxfont.desc: * updated libxfont (1.4.4 -> 1.4.5)
13:58 < CIA-13> rene * r40296 /trunk/package/x11/xvkbd/xvkbd.desc: * updated xvkbd (3.2 -> 3.3)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40298 /trunk/package/network/openldap/openldap.desc: * updated openldap (2.4.29 -> 2.4.30)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40297 /trunk/package/network/aria2/aria2.desc: * updated aria2 (1.14.1 -> 1.14.2)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40299 /trunk/package/games/wesnoth/wesnoth.desc: * updated wesnoth (1.10 -> 1.10.1)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40300 /trunk/package/multimedia/live/live.desc: * updated live (2012.02.04 -> 2012.02.29)
15:26 -!- T-One [~T-One@213.33.91.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:28 -!- dougmencken [~username@93.123.156.139] has joined #t2
15:28 < dougmencken> hello, guys!
15:28 < dougmencken> I plan to switch to your distro :)
15:36 < dougmencken> Checked out revision 40300.
15:42 < dougmencken> http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1060/t2configuring.png
15:44 < dougmencken> cksum-test (bzip2): download/mirror/l/linux-2.6.37.tar.bz2 ... hmm ... the kernel is old
15:48 < dougmencken> Downloading linux26:download/mirror/l/linux-3.2.tar.bz2 ...
15:49 < dougmencken> didn't get it? headers from 2.6.37, but the kernel itself - 3.2?..
15:49 < dougmencken> okay, let's look where it goes
16:55 -!- dougmencken [~username@93.123.156.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
17:00 -!- username [~username@93.123.156.139] has joined #t2
17:00 -!- username is now known as dougmencken
17:03 < dougmencken> oh, I don't need samba at all
17:04 < shevy> dougmencken yeah wait a little until rene is here :D
17:05 < dougmencken> it looks like that downloading sources will take forever, so okay ;)
17:05 < dougmencken> especially with my connection (very unstable)
17:07 < dougmencken> also, I haven't found the answer in FAQ, but... why is this distro called "T2"?
17:08 < dougmencken> I met it via this article: http://lwn.net/Articles/395894/
17:10 < dougmencken> I'malso trying to build my own distro: http://manulix.wikidot.com/
17:11 < dougmencken> (currently, it's only a chroot environment; but I'm sure I can learn a lot from T2)
17:19 < dougmencken> thunderbird too :) mutt is enough
17:20 < dougmencken> how long would it all take to compile?
17:21 < dougmencken> having a reference time: gcc does 3-stage bootstrap for ~4 hours on my side
17:23 < dougmencken> shevy: is rene the only one developer?
17:25 * dougmencken also wonders about benh... where is he how... what does he do... he did ~3/4 of all powerpc-related code in linux back in mid 2000s
17:32 < dougmencken> kdebase? oh
17:33 < dougmencken> I just need plain x.org, a liitle gtk+2 (3?)
17:51 < shevy> dougmencken there are some others but he is the most active one and most often around here
17:52 < shevy> dougmencken I never got into the "mainstream" distributions, so I developed a habit of interest in alternative solutions, like gobolinux, nixos, t2. I am not a dev though, programming is just a hobby, mostly for things I need to have solved more conveniently
17:52 < shevy> and most of the time in the programming language Ruby
17:53 < dougmencken> heh, that's why I've chosen this distro
17:54 < dougmencken> not Ruby :) and even not Lua ... but the point that there's no chance in "mainstream" distributions if you don't use mainstream cpu arch
17:57 < shevy> you write in a language?
17:57 < shevy> I got tired of the big distributions
17:57 < dougmencken> english is nont "my mama's tongue" :)
17:57 < dougmencken> not*
17:57 < dougmencken> shevy: for prog lang, I do know C/C++, Java
17:58 < dougmencken> powerpc assembly
17:58 < shevy> aha
17:58 < shevy> the classical programmer :)
17:58 < dougmencken> for big distributions, looks like I'm tired too
17:59 < dougmencken> kind of ;)
17:59 < shevy> let me show you a funny error I had recently
17:59 < shevy> from firefox:
17:59 < shevy> configure: error: Can't find header GL/glx.h for WebGL (install mesa-common-dev (Ubuntu), mesa-libGL-devel (Fedora), or
17:59 < shevy> Mesa-devel (openSUSE))
17:59 < shevy> What's wrong with this picture? ;)
17:59 < shevy> 3 different names for the same thing
18:00 < shevy> big distributions == curse
18:00 < dougmencken> is this some game? like nether earth?
18:00 < shevy> haha
18:00 < shevy> they just like to name them differently
18:00 < shevy> the distributions create their own ecosystem of incompatibilities purposely
18:00 < dougmencken> the problem is that NE remake can't into autotools :)
18:00 < shevy> yet on the other hand they claim to want to "standardize" on FHS and LSB
18:01 < shevy> my answer to them is
18:01 < shevy> distributions must die!
18:02 < dougmencken> the fact is they are needed ("easy distros"), at least to attract "non-power" users
18:02 < dougmencken> the real problem is contributing for them
18:02 < dougmencken> a lot of "rules", a total ignorance, etc.
18:03 < dougmencken> it's much easier to send patch to upstream and watch how it is applied
18:03 < dougmencken> rather than trying to contribute the same patch to "maintainers"
18:06 < dougmencken> ah, your message is from firefox... heh, they do use autotools 2.1 (from 90s)
18:06 < dougmencken> and the bug about migration to at least 2.6 has a very importance flag
18:06 < dougmencken> but nobody (including me, I even promised to try to fix) cares
18:08 < dougmencken> oh, judging from http://t2-project.org/packages/ T2 doesn't care much about being free
18:08 < dougmencken> I hope that non-free stuff just doesn't exist for non-x86 :)
18:09 < dougmencken> acroread - A PDF Reader9.3.4officeRestricted
18:10 < dougmencken> ^^^^ why is this thing needed at all? we do have xpdf, we do have evince
18:11 < shevy> I am using it :)
18:11 < shevy> neither xpdf nor evince compile for me right now
18:11 < shevy> xpdf would have been nice but it is more or less abandoned
18:11 < shevy> evince has too many gnome dependencies, that is a damn pain
18:12 < shevy> the less gnome ecosystem I have to use the better for my mental health
18:12 < dougmencken> okay, then TeXworks' PDF viewer :)
18:12 < shevy> tex, never got that one to work
18:12 < dougmencken> \emph{hmm...}
18:12 < dougmencken> % ;)
18:12 < shevy> argh
18:13 < dougmencken> so you're not on powerpc?
18:14 < dougmencken> also, a lot of kde stuff is downloading, so I think that having gtk+ stuff is a less pain
18:14 < dougmencken> or are T2 devs kde fans? ;)
18:14 < shevy> never had a powerpc
18:15 < shevy> I hate kde too nowadays, just less than gnome
18:15 < shevy> I switched to the Xfce camp
18:15 < dougmencken> I do use e16 actually
18:15 < shevy> yeah enlightenment is interesting
18:15 < shevy> I hope they can avoid the madness in kde and gnome
18:15 < dougmencken> very nice WM, with a capabilities of mixing tiling and windowed WMs
18:17 < dougmencken> ibm-jre-131 - IBM Java 1.3 Runtime Environment1.3.1-SR10-1javaRestricted
18:17 < dougmencken> ^^^ and ... who does need this?
18:17 < dougmencken> icc - The Intel C/C++ Compiler9.0.030x86Commercial << is definitely not for me, but anyways :)
18:21 < dougmencken> phew
18:22 < dougmencken> now ./scripts/Build-Target -cfg system
18:22 < dougmencken> qmake :)
18:22 < dougmencken> Building tools in build/.../TOOLCHAIN/tools.cross << why cross?
18:26 < dougmencken> nice sound of fan spinning at full rpms :)
18:27 < dougmencken> http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/928/t2buildstart.png
18:32 < dougmencken> == 03/05/12 12:31:36 =[0]=> Finished building package flex.
18:32 < dougmencken> I'd bet it would be ~2 days.
18:35 -!- bobbytux [~bobbytux@ARouen-553-1-160-199.w90-23.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:35 < dougmencken> == 12:32:16 =[0]=> Building develop/binutils [2.20.51.0.11 9.0-trunk] == 03/05/12 12:34:35 =[0]=> Finished building package binutils.
18:36 < dougmencken> well, nice; in LFS world, time for binutils is counted as 1 unit
18:43 < dougmencken> an error
18:45 < dougmencken> http://pastebin.com/VaQLdvwC
18:46 < dougmencken> Cannot find GMP version 4.1.3 or higher. << but scientific/gmp [5.0.2 9.0-trunk] has been built 3 steps above
18:47 < dougmencken> When compiling the GMP library, do not forget to enable the C++ interface: add --enable-cxx to the configuration options. << maybe this is a problem?
18:49 < dougmencken> stat: cannot stat `build/system-9.0-trunk-desktop-powerpc64-G5-linux/root/var/adm/logs': No such file or directory
18:49 -!- bobbytux [~bobbytux@ARouen-553-1-144-9.w92-152.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #t2
18:49 < dougmencken> stat: cannot stat `/root/var/adm/logs': No such file or directory
18:55 < dougmencken> ~/t2_distro/t2-trunk/src.ppl.system.20120305.123926.26519.g5/ERROR-LOG >> http://pastebin.com/LhYU8g3j
18:56 < dougmencken> checking how to link with libgmpxx... << this is a spot
18:56 < dougmencken> we do really need --enable-cxx for gmp
18:57 < dougmencken> how to edit ./configure options for gmp?
18:57 < dougmencken> for T2
18:58 < shevy> hmm
18:59 < shevy> I dont know how T2 does it
18:59 < shevy> in my build scripts for gmp, I tend to use:
18:59 < shevy> "--enable-cxx --enable-mpbsd --enable-static --disable-shared --build=x86_64-linux"
19:00 < dougmencken> shevy: how to get which ones is used in T2?
19:00 < dougmencken> ~/t2_distro/t2-trunk/src.ppl.system.20120305.123926.26519.g5/ppl-0.11.2/config.log >> http://pastebin.com/index/LhYU8g3j
19:01 < dougmencken> and a request of enhancement: can you provide a short description about the package being build? like me does
19:02 < shevy> dougmencken no real idea, we have to wait for rxr I suppose
19:02 < shevy> I failed to build the latest GCC for instance
19:02 < shevy> the new dependencies go on my nerves :\
19:02 < dougmencken> for example: http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/manulix/scripts/build-scripts/PKGINFO/pkginfo-gmp
19:03 < dougmencken> shevy: for example? I did a 4.7 testing a lot
19:03 < shevy> I am on 4.6.1 still
19:03 < dougmencken> oh :/
19:04 < dougmencken> since 4.5, gcc requires mpc, that's all
19:04 < dougmencken> what are " the new dependencies" you're about?
19:05 < dougmencken> maybe does it worth to send my error to mail list?
19:07 < shevy> my notes so far are:
19:07 < shevy> gmp,mpc >= 0.8.1,ppl
19:07 < shevy> especially ppl
19:07 < shevy> dougmencken, the latest gcc surely requires some ppl* crap
19:07 < shevy> parma something
19:07 < dougmencken> gcc doesn't require it, just belive me :)
19:08 < shevy> when you want to compile gcc from source
19:08 < shevy> you can not continue after configure phase if you do not have these
19:09 < shevy> configure: error: Building GCC requires GMP 4.2+, MPFR 2.3.1+ and MPC 0.8.0+.
19:09 < shevy> Try the --with-gmp, --with-mpfr and/or --with-mpc options to specify
19:09 < dougmencken> correct, but not ppl
19:09 < shevy> hmm
19:09 < shevy> one of these requires ppl I think
19:10 < shevy> I dunno how, but somewhere ppl is needed
19:10 < shevy> I remember some cloog-parma error thing and did not have that in older gcc
19:10 < dougmencken> you think, I know, look here: http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/manulix/binpkg-powerpc/
19:10 < shevy> I want to use llvm :(
19:10 < dougmencken> I never knew about ppl
19:10 < shevy> ok where is gcc 4.6.3 there
19:10 < dougmencken> ah, llvm
19:11 < dougmencken> [#0006] 58467.6K 2012-01-23 gcc_snapshot v4.7.0-89ba950 (gcc_snapshot-v4.7.0-89ba950-powerpc-uclibc.binpkg.tar.bz2)
19:11 < dougmencken> I don't upload it, coz it can't build working uclibc
19:11 < dougmencken> I tried 4.6.2, it was okay; but it's the past
19:12 < dougmencken> okay, getting 4.6.3
19:12 < shevy> hehe
19:12 < shevy> the past
19:12 < shevy> :D
19:13 < shevy> I remember the gcc 3.x days
19:13 < dougmencken> me too
19:13 < shevy> even gcc 2.x something, I think I even got it to work years ago
19:13 < dougmencken> and even 2.x
19:13 < shevy> now gcc is just huge and annoying
19:13 < dougmencken> shevy: hey! it's now much better
19:13 < shevy> man
19:13 < shevy> things always get worse
19:13 < shevy> KDE 4 now requires boost too if you want to compile it
19:13 < dougmencken> better (faster and smaller) code, in a lot of improvement with automata
19:14 < shevy> smaller where!
19:14 < shevy> gcc-3.4.6.tar.bz2 27 MB, gcc-4.6.3.tar.bz2 69 M things just grow and grow and grow. KDE is even worse here than gcc, at least gcc is critical whereas I can opt out on KDE
19:14 < shevy> oh and I did not even mention gnome yet
19:14 < shevy> did I? :D
19:14 < dougmencken> shevy: would you belive me?
19:15 < dougmencken> not the gcc itself, but the reult
19:16 < dougmencken> The following are sizes, in bytes, of classpath binary packages built from the same srcpkg with GCC 4.5.2 and GCC 4.6.0, respectively:
19:16 < dougmencken> {{**12310721** @@2011-02-22 23:32 classpath-v0.98-powerpc-uclibc.binpkg.tar.bz2@@}}
19:16 < dougmencken> {{**12264371** @@2011-03-20 14:40 classpath-v0.98-powerpc-uclibc.binpkg.tar.bz2@@}}
19:16 < dougmencken> The following are sizes, in bytes, of make (v0.82) binaries built with GCC 4.5.2 and GCC 4.6.0, respectively:
19:17 < dougmencken> {{**161820** @@2011-02-22 23:57 usr/bin/make@@}}
19:17 < dougmencken> {{**159188** @@2011-04-16 08:27 usr/bin/make@@}}
19:17 < shevy> dougmencken dunno
19:17 < shevy> I dont trust things much these days anymore
19:17 < dougmencken> you can try it by yourself, I'm not sure how is it on x86 scene
19:18 < dougmencken> just use the same config, the same source tarball
19:18 < shevy> hehe
19:18 < shevy> I compile statically usually when possible :)
19:20 < shevy> wheee
19:20 < shevy> you play wesnoth? :D
19:20 < shevy> I hate to mention it but
19:20 < shevy> it used to be smaller and leaner ;)
19:20 < shevy> it's quite nice though, I played it quite a bit
19:22 < dougmencken> shevy: of course, I do
19:22 < dougmencken> even was on ladder
19:22 < dougmencken> douggie is my nick there
19:22 < shevy> hehe
19:22 < shevy> did you play warcraft 3 by chance?
19:22 < dougmencken> nope
19:23 < dougmencken> globulation2 maybe?
19:23 < dougmencken> nexuiz?
19:23 < dougmencken> (all that's free software)
19:30 < dougmencken> I'm now bootstrapping gcc 4.6.3 inside manulix' chroot
19:31 < dougmencken> my build commands >> http://pastebin.com/au8nDvT5
19:57 < dougmencken> looks like IRC is really sleepy; any hope mailing list would be quicker?
20:00 < shevy> I have no idea
20:00 < shevy> I never used any mailing lists since my 8 years on freenode IRC
20:00 < dougmencken> okay :)
20:00 < shevy> dougmencken, rene is usually here
20:01 < shevy> I dont have timespans in my IRC log but he was here :P
20:01 < shevy> rene * r40299 /trunk/package/games/wesnoth/wesnoth.desc: * updated wesnoth (1.10 -> 1.10.1)
20:01 < shevy> rene * r40300 /trunk/package/multimedia/live/live.desc: * updated live (2012.02.04 -> 2012.02.29)
20:01 < shevy> hello, guys!
20:01 < shevy> see he did some commits before you joined
20:01 < dougmencken> oh
20:01 < shevy> but as I dont have time stamps, and have a dynamic IP where I get regularly disconnected, I really have no idea when anything was said :)
20:02 < dougmencken> shevy: can I /query you for wesnoth 1v1 game?
20:02 < dougmencken> ;)
20:02 < shevy> dougmencken I could not get boost to compile
20:02 < shevy> and since my habit is to compile everything from source, I could not get the new wesnoth to work either :(
20:02 < shevy> but when it works eventually, sure :)
20:02 < dougmencken> what's wrong with boost?
20:03 < shevy> I am not sure, it is annoying me to no ends
20:03 < shevy> when software annoys me, I get angry and throw it away for a while. after some time, usually a few weeks, I give things another try
20:03 < shevy> but until then I am just very angry
20:04 < dougmencken> okay okay, dude
20:04 < dougmencken> I'm usually begin to try to fix it
20:09 < dougmencken> shevy: I suppose you can understand it when you'll be on non-x86 arch :)
20:13 < dougmencken> oh, my build system isn't adopted for multicore machines
20:29 < dougmencken> happy then, I can watch 1080p videos while gcc is bootstrapping; I'm now wathcing "Amelie" ;)
21:14 < shevy> well
21:14 < shevy> I am only alternating between x86 and 64
21:14 < shevy> mostly I am on 64 these days
21:17 < dougmencken> then you had lost a lot of "unsupported" stuff :)
21:17 < dougmencken> our only hope is free software
21:18 < dougmencken> for example: starcraft 2 is not avial for powerpc
21:18 < dougmencken> (even on os x, not to mention gnu/linux)
21:18 < dougmencken> and! even plants vs zombies
21:18 < dougmencken> I do play it via qemu
21:19 < dougmencken> emulating a windows machine, having stolen a copy of windows XP
21:19 < dougmencken> just to be able to play plants vs zombies
21:20 < dougmencken> and! I asked for pvz for powerpc; I even said I'd pay $100 for it
21:20 < dougmencken> they ignored me (popgames' team), never answered
22:22 < dougmencken> finished gcc 4.6.3
22:23 < dougmencken> it doesn't require ppl
22:30 < dougmencken> I'm goind to bed now; see you
--- Log closed Tue Mar 06 00:00:20 2012
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10:19 < rxr> moin
11:20 < CIA-13> rene * r40285 /trunk/package/xorg/libfontenc/libfontenc.desc: * updated libfontenc (1.1.0 -> 1.1.1)
11:20 < CIA-13> rene * r40284 /trunk/package/xorg/inputproto/inputproto.desc: * updated inputproto (2.1 -> 2.2)
11:20 < CIA-13> rene * r40286 /trunk/package/xorg/libfs/libfs.desc: * updated libfs (1.0.3 -> 1.0.4)
11:21 < CIA-13> rene * r40287 /trunk/package/filesystem/lvm2/lvm2.desc: * updated lvm2 (2.02.93 -> 2.02.94)
11:21 < CIA-13> rene * r40288 /trunk/package/base/grep/grep.desc: * updated grep (2.10 -> 2.11)
11:34 -!- T-One [~T-One@213.33.91.2] has joined #t2
13:55 < rxr> 0re
13:55 < CIA-13> rene * r40289 /trunk/package/emulators/wine/wine.desc: * updated wine (1.4-rc5 -> 1.4-rc6)
13:56 < CIA-13> rene * r40290 /trunk/package/mail/nullmailer/nullmailer.desc: * updated nullmailer (1.05 -> 1.06)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40291 /trunk/package/xorg/libpciaccess/libpciaccess.desc: * updated libpciaccess (0.12.1 -> 0.13)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40292 /trunk/package/games/gnuchess/gnuchess.desc: * updated gnuchess (6.0.1 -> 6.0.2)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40293 /trunk/package/xorg/libsm/libsm.desc: * updated libsm (1.2.0 -> 1.2.1)
13:57 < CIA-13> rene * r40294 /trunk/package/xorg/libice/libice.desc: * updated libice (1.0.7 -> 1.0.8)
13:58 < CIA-13> rene * r40295 /trunk/package/xorg/libxfont/libxfont.desc: * updated libxfont (1.4.4 -> 1.4.5)
13:58 < CIA-13> rene * r40296 /trunk/package/x11/xvkbd/xvkbd.desc: * updated xvkbd (3.2 -> 3.3)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40298 /trunk/package/network/openldap/openldap.desc: * updated openldap (2.4.29 -> 2.4.30)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40297 /trunk/package/network/aria2/aria2.desc: * updated aria2 (1.14.1 -> 1.14.2)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40299 /trunk/package/games/wesnoth/wesnoth.desc: * updated wesnoth (1.10 -> 1.10.1)
13:59 < CIA-13> rene * r40300 /trunk/package/multimedia/live/live.desc: * updated live (2012.02.04 -> 2012.02.29)
15:26 -!- T-One [~T-One@213.33.91.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:28 -!- dougmencken [~username@93.123.156.139] has joined #t2
15:28 < dougmencken> hello, guys!
15:28 < dougmencken> I plan to switch to your distro :)
15:36 < dougmencken> Checked out revision 40300.
15:42 < dougmencken> http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1060/t2configuring.png
15:44 < dougmencken> cksum-test (bzip2): download/mirror/l/linux-2.6.37.tar.bz2 ... hmm ... the kernel is old
15:48 < dougmencken> Downloading linux26:download/mirror/l/linux-3.2.tar.bz2 ...
15:49 < dougmencken> didn't get it? headers from 2.6.37, but the kernel itself - 3.2?..
15:49 < dougmencken> okay, let's look where it goes
16:55 -!- dougmencken [~username@93.123.156.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
17:00 -!- username [~username@93.123.156.139] has joined #t2
17:00 -!- username is now known as dougmencken
17:03 < dougmencken> oh, I don't need samba at all
17:04 < shevy> dougmencken yeah wait a little until rene is here :D
17:05 < dougmencken> it looks like that downloading sources will take forever, so okay ;)
17:05 < dougmencken> especially with my connection (very unstable)
17:07 < dougmencken> also, I haven't found the answer in FAQ, but... why is this distro called "T2"?
17:08 < dougmencken> I met it via this article: http://lwn.net/Articles/395894/
17:10 < dougmencken> I'malso trying to build my own distro: http://manulix.wikidot.com/
17:11 < dougmencken> (currently, it's only a chroot environment; but I'm sure I can learn a lot from T2)
17:19 < dougmencken> thunderbird too :) mutt is enough
17:20 < dougmencken> how long would it all take to compile?
17:21 < dougmencken> having a reference time: gcc does 3-stage bootstrap for ~4 hours on my side
17:23 < dougmencken> shevy: is rene the only one developer?
17:25 * dougmencken also wonders about benh... where is he how... what does he do... he did ~3/4 of all powerpc-related code in linux back in mid 2000s
17:32 < dougmencken> kdebase? oh
17:33 < dougmencken> I just need plain x.org, a liitle gtk+2 (3?)
17:51 < shevy> dougmencken there are some others but he is the most active one and most often around here
17:52 < shevy> dougmencken I never got into the "mainstream" distributions, so I developed a habit of interest in alternative solutions, like gobolinux, nixos, t2. I am not a dev though, programming is just a hobby, mostly for things I need to have solved more conveniently
17:52 < shevy> and most of the time in the programming language Ruby
17:53 < dougmencken> heh, that's why I've chosen this distro
17:54 < dougmencken> not Ruby :) and even not Lua ... but the point that there's no chance in "mainstream" distributions if you don't use mainstream cpu arch
17:57 < shevy> you write in a language?
17:57 < shevy> I got tired of the big distributions
17:57 < dougmencken> english is nont "my mama's tongue" :)
17:57 < dougmencken> not*
17:57 < dougmencken> shevy: for prog lang, I do know C/C++, Java
17:58 < dougmencken> powerpc assembly
17:58 < shevy> aha
17:58 < shevy> the classical programmer :)
17:58 < dougmencken> for big distributions, looks like I'm tired too
17:59 < dougmencken> kind of ;)
17:59 < shevy> let me show you a funny error I had recently
17:59 < shevy> from firefox:
17:59 < shevy> configure: error: Can't find header GL/glx.h for WebGL (install mesa-common-dev (Ubuntu), mesa-libGL-devel (Fedora), or
17:59 < shevy> Mesa-devel (openSUSE))
17:59 < shevy> What's wrong with this picture? ;)
17:59 < shevy> 3 different names for the same thing
18:00 < shevy> big distributions == curse
18:00 < dougmencken> is this some game? like nether earth?
18:00 < shevy> haha
18:00 < shevy> they just like to name them differently
18:00 < shevy> the distributions create their own ecosystem of incompatibilities purposely
18:00 < dougmencken> the problem is that NE remake can't into autotools :)
18:00 < shevy> yet on the other hand they claim to want to "standardize" on FHS and LSB
18:01 < shevy> my answer to them is
18:01 < shevy> distributions must die!
18:02 < dougmencken> the fact is they are needed ("easy distros"), at least to attract "non-power" users
18:02 < dougmencken> the real problem is contributing for them
18:02 < dougmencken> a lot of "rules", a total ignorance, etc.
18:03 < dougmencken> it's much easier to send patch to upstream and watch how it is applied
18:03 < dougmencken> rather than trying to contribute the same patch to "maintainers"
18:06 < dougmencken> ah, your message is from firefox... heh, they do use autotools 2.1 (from 90s)
18:06 < dougmencken> and the bug about migration to at least 2.6 has a very importance flag
18:06 < dougmencken> but nobody (including me, I even promised to try to fix) cares
18:08 < dougmencken> oh, judging from http://t2-project.org/packages/ T2 doesn't care much about being free
18:08 < dougmencken> I hope that non-free stuff just doesn't exist for non-x86 :)
18:09 < dougmencken> acroread - A PDF Reader9.3.4officeRestricted
18:10 < dougmencken> ^^^^ why is this thing needed at all? we do have xpdf, we do have evince
18:11 < shevy> I am using it :)
18:11 < shevy> neither xpdf nor evince compile for me right now
18:11 < shevy> xpdf would have been nice but it is more or less abandoned
18:11 < shevy> evince has too many gnome dependencies, that is a damn pain
18:12 < shevy> the less gnome ecosystem I have to use the better for my mental health
18:12 < dougmencken> okay, then TeXworks' PDF viewer :)
18:12 < shevy> tex, never got that one to work
18:12 < dougmencken> \emph{hmm...}
18:12 < dougmencken> % ;)
18:12 < shevy> argh
18:13 < dougmencken> so you're not on powerpc?
18:14 < dougmencken> also, a lot of kde stuff is downloading, so I think that having gtk+ stuff is a less pain
18:14 < dougmencken> or are T2 devs kde fans? ;)
18:14 < shevy> never had a powerpc
18:15 < shevy> I hate kde too nowadays, just less than gnome
18:15 < shevy> I switched to the Xfce camp
18:15 < dougmencken> I do use e16 actually
18:15 < shevy> yeah enlightenment is interesting
18:15 < shevy> I hope they can avoid the madness in kde and gnome
18:15 < dougmencken> very nice WM, with a capabilities of mixing tiling and windowed WMs
18:17 < dougmencken> ibm-jre-131 - IBM Java 1.3 Runtime Environment1.3.1-SR10-1javaRestricted
18:17 < dougmencken> ^^^ and ... who does need this?
18:17 < dougmencken> icc - The Intel C/C++ Compiler9.0.030x86Commercial << is definitely not for me, but anyways :)
18:21 < dougmencken> phew
18:22 < dougmencken> now ./scripts/Build-Target -cfg system
18:22 < dougmencken> qmake :)
18:22 < dougmencken> Building tools in build/.../TOOLCHAIN/tools.cross << why cross?
18:26 < dougmencken> nice sound of fan spinning at full rpms :)
18:27 < dougmencken> http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/928/t2buildstart.png
18:32 < dougmencken> == 03/05/12 12:31:36 =[0]=> Finished building package flex.
18:32 < dougmencken> I'd bet it would be ~2 days.
18:35 -!- bobbytux [~bobbytux@ARouen-553-1-160-199.w90-23.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:35 < dougmencken> == 12:32:16 =[0]=> Building develop/binutils [2.20.51.0.11 9.0-trunk] == 03/05/12 12:34:35 =[0]=> Finished building package binutils.
18:36 < dougmencken> well, nice; in LFS world, time for binutils is counted as 1 unit
18:43 < dougmencken> an error
18:45 < dougmencken> http://pastebin.com/VaQLdvwC
18:46 < dougmencken> Cannot find GMP version 4.1.3 or higher. << but scientific/gmp [5.0.2 9.0-trunk] has been built 3 steps above
18:47 < dougmencken> When compiling the GMP library, do not forget to enable the C++ interface: add --enable-cxx to the configuration options. << maybe this is a problem?
18:49 < dougmencken> stat: cannot stat `build/system-9.0-trunk-desktop-powerpc64-G5-linux/root/var/adm/logs': No such file or directory
18:49 -!- bobbytux [~bobbytux@ARouen-553-1-144-9.w92-152.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #t2
18:49 < dougmencken> stat: cannot stat `/root/var/adm/logs': No such file or directory
18:55 < dougmencken> ~/t2_distro/t2-trunk/src.ppl.system.20120305.123926.26519.g5/ERROR-LOG >> http://pastebin.com/LhYU8g3j
18:56 < dougmencken> checking how to link with libgmpxx... << this is a spot
18:56 < dougmencken> we do really need --enable-cxx for gmp
18:57 < dougmencken> how to edit ./configure options for gmp?
18:57 < dougmencken> for T2
18:58 < shevy> hmm
18:59 < shevy> I dont know how T2 does it
18:59 < shevy> in my build scripts for gmp, I tend to use:
18:59 < shevy> "--enable-cxx --enable-mpbsd --enable-static --disable-shared --build=x86_64-linux"
19:00 < dougmencken> shevy: how to get which ones is used in T2?
19:00 < dougmencken> ~/t2_distro/t2-trunk/src.ppl.system.20120305.123926.26519.g5/ppl-0.11.2/config.log >> http://pastebin.com/index/LhYU8g3j
19:01 < dougmencken> and a request of enhancement: can you provide a short description about the package being build? like me does
19:02 < shevy> dougmencken no real idea, we have to wait for rxr I suppose
19:02 < shevy> I failed to build the latest GCC for instance
19:02 < shevy> the new dependencies go on my nerves :\
19:02 < dougmencken> for example: http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/manulix/scripts/build-scripts/PKGINFO/pkginfo-gmp
19:03 < dougmencken> shevy: for example? I did a 4.7 testing a lot
19:03 < shevy> I am on 4.6.1 still
19:03 < dougmencken> oh :/
19:04 < dougmencken> since 4.5, gcc requires mpc, that's all
19:04 < dougmencken> what are " the new dependencies" you're about?
19:05 < dougmencken> maybe does it worth to send my error to mail list?
19:07 < shevy> my notes so far are:
19:07 < shevy> gmp,mpc >= 0.8.1,ppl
19:07 < shevy> especially ppl
19:07 < shevy> dougmencken, the latest gcc surely requires some ppl* crap
19:07 < shevy> parma something
19:07 < dougmencken> gcc doesn't require it, just belive me :)
19:08 < shevy> when you want to compile gcc from source
19:08 < shevy> you can not continue after configure phase if you do not have these
19:09 < shevy> configure: error: Building GCC requires GMP 4.2+, MPFR 2.3.1+ and MPC 0.8.0+.
19:09 < shevy> Try the --with-gmp, --with-mpfr and/or --with-mpc options to specify
19:09 < dougmencken> correct, but not ppl
19:09 < shevy> hmm
19:09 < shevy> one of these requires ppl I think
19:10 < shevy> I dunno how, but somewhere ppl is needed
19:10 < shevy> I remember some cloog-parma error thing and did not have that in older gcc
19:10 < dougmencken> you think, I know, look here: http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/manulix/binpkg-powerpc/
19:10 < shevy> I want to use llvm :(
19:10 < dougmencken> I never knew about ppl
19:10 < shevy> ok where is gcc 4.6.3 there
19:10 < dougmencken> ah, llvm
19:11 < dougmencken> [#0006] 58467.6K 2012-01-23 gcc_snapshot v4.7.0-89ba950 (gcc_snapshot-v4.7.0-89ba950-powerpc-uclibc.binpkg.tar.bz2)
19:11 < dougmencken> I don't upload it, coz it can't build working uclibc
19:11 < dougmencken> I tried 4.6.2, it was okay; but it's the past
19:12 < dougmencken> okay, getting 4.6.3
19:12 < shevy> hehe
19:12 < shevy> the past
19:12 < shevy> :D
19:13 < shevy> I remember the gcc 3.x days
19:13 < dougmencken> me too
19:13 < shevy> even gcc 2.x something, I think I even got it to work years ago
19:13 < dougmencken> and even 2.x
19:13 < shevy> now gcc is just huge and annoying
19:13 < dougmencken> shevy: hey! it's now much better
19:13 < shevy> man
19:13 < shevy> things always get worse
19:13 < shevy> KDE 4 now requires boost too if you want to compile it
19:13 < dougmencken> better (faster and smaller) code, in a lot of improvement with automata
19:14 < shevy> smaller where!
19:14 < shevy> gcc-3.4.6.tar.bz2 27 MB, gcc-4.6.3.tar.bz2 69 M things just grow and grow and grow. KDE is even worse here than gcc, at least gcc is critical whereas I can opt out on KDE
19:14 < shevy> oh and I did not even mention gnome yet
19:14 < shevy> did I? :D
19:14 < dougmencken> shevy: would you belive me?
19:15 < dougmencken> not the gcc itself, but the reult
19:16 < dougmencken> The following are sizes, in bytes, of classpath binary packages built from the same srcpkg with GCC 4.5.2 and GCC 4.6.0, respectively:
19:16 < dougmencken> {{**12310721** @@2011-02-22 23:32 classpath-v0.98-powerpc-uclibc.binpkg.tar.bz2@@}}
19:16 < dougmencken> {{**12264371** @@2011-03-20 14:40 classpath-v0.98-powerpc-uclibc.binpkg.tar.bz2@@}}
19:16 < dougmencken> The following are sizes, in bytes, of make (v0.82) binaries built with GCC 4.5.2 and GCC 4.6.0, respectively:
19:17 < dougmencken> {{**161820** @@2011-02-22 23:57 usr/bin/make@@}}
19:17 < dougmencken> {{**159188** @@2011-04-16 08:27 usr/bin/make@@}}
19:17 < shevy> dougmencken dunno
19:17 < shevy> I dont trust things much these days anymore
19:17 < dougmencken> you can try it by yourself, I'm not sure how is it on x86 scene
19:18 < dougmencken> just use the same config, the same source tarball
19:18 < shevy> hehe
19:18 < shevy> I compile statically usually when possible :)
19:20 < shevy> wheee
19:20 < shevy> you play wesnoth? :D
19:20 < shevy> I hate to mention it but
19:20 < shevy> it used to be smaller and leaner ;)
19:20 < shevy> it's quite nice though, I played it quite a bit
19:22 < dougmencken> shevy: of course, I do
19:22 < dougmencken> even was on ladder
19:22 < dougmencken> douggie is my nick there
19:22 < shevy> hehe
19:22 < shevy> did you play warcraft 3 by chance?
19:22 < dougmencken> nope
19:23 < dougmencken> globulation2 maybe?
19:23 < dougmencken> nexuiz?
19:23 < dougmencken> (all that's free software)
19:30 < dougmencken> I'm now bootstrapping gcc 4.6.3 inside manulix' chroot
19:31 < dougmencken> my build commands >> http://pastebin.com/au8nDvT5
19:57 < dougmencken> looks like IRC is really sleepy; any hope mailing list would be quicker?
20:00 < shevy> I have no idea
20:00 < shevy> I never used any mailing lists since my 8 years on freenode IRC
20:00 < dougmencken> okay :)
20:00 < shevy> dougmencken, rene is usually here
20:01 < shevy> I dont have timespans in my IRC log but he was here :P
20:01 < shevy>
20:01 < shevy>
20:01 < shevy>
20:01 < shevy> see he did some commits before you joined
20:01 < dougmencken> oh
20:01 < shevy> but as I dont have time stamps, and have a dynamic IP where I get regularly disconnected, I really have no idea when anything was said :)
20:02 < dougmencken> shevy: can I /query you for wesnoth 1v1 game?
20:02 < dougmencken> ;)
20:02 < shevy> dougmencken I could not get boost to compile
20:02 < shevy> and since my habit is to compile everything from source, I could not get the new wesnoth to work either :(
20:02 < shevy> but when it works eventually, sure :)
20:02 < dougmencken> what's wrong with boost?
20:03 < shevy> I am not sure, it is annoying me to no ends
20:03 < shevy> when software annoys me, I get angry and throw it away for a while. after some time, usually a few weeks, I give things another try
20:03 < shevy> but until then I am just very angry
20:04 < dougmencken> okay okay, dude
20:04 < dougmencken> I'm usually begin to try to fix it
20:09 < dougmencken> shevy: I suppose you can understand it when you'll be on non-x86 arch :)
20:13 < dougmencken> oh, my build system isn't adopted for multicore machines
20:29 < dougmencken> happy then, I can watch 1080p videos while gcc is bootstrapping; I'm now wathcing "Amelie" ;)
21:14 < shevy> well
21:14 < shevy> I am only alternating between x86 and 64
21:14 < shevy> mostly I am on 64 these days
21:17 < dougmencken> then you had lost a lot of "unsupported" stuff :)
21:17 < dougmencken> our only hope is free software
21:18 < dougmencken> for example: starcraft 2 is not avial for powerpc
21:18 < dougmencken> (even on os x, not to mention gnu/linux)
21:18 < dougmencken> and! even plants vs zombies
21:18 < dougmencken> I do play it via qemu
21:19 < dougmencken> emulating a windows machine, having stolen a copy of windows XP
21:19 < dougmencken> just to be able to play plants vs zombies
21:20 < dougmencken> and! I asked for pvz for powerpc; I even said I'd pay $100 for it
21:20 < dougmencken> they ignored me (popgames' team), never answered
22:22 < dougmencken> finished gcc 4.6.3
22:23 < dougmencken> it doesn't require ppl
22:30 < dougmencken> I'm goind to bed now; see you
--- Log closed Tue Mar 06 00:00:20 2012